Tremelune

If you're not racing anyone, wouldn't it make sense to use cheap tires on the track? Yes, they would have less grip, and of course it would take you longer to get around the track, but you would also put less stress on other componants and save a good amount on tires, etc.

With the NAs, it would also feel like you had more power to spin the rears, lock up the brakes...limits would be easier and safer to find, etc...

Since most of us aren't competing, and there are always slower and faster cars on the track with us, it just makes some sense to me. Anyone care to weigh in?

Mike Buck

I disagree.

By your logic, why use a P-car to begin with?

ERAU-944

the only benefit i could see is that if you already had the tires and they are crappy. i myself have a set of used W rated tires on 16" rims for track use (coming up this weekend, my first ever) but generally i wouldnt use tires worse than those that i'd use on the street. basically i'd use street tires at the very least. i can understand wanting to save some $ though (why i went with used tires for track beatings). some of what you said (about safety) makes sense - lower limits, slower speeds, but really, when you think about it, the N/A limits aren't that hard to reach anyway (at least i don't find them to be), so having worse rubber really isn't necessary. our suspensions are plenty tough as long as the wheels you use aren't too big.

ok, i'm done rambling!

-Michael-

starr944

Yes, from my experience you really want some good track tires. Unless of course you don't mind finding youself picking up bits and pieces of your car after kissing the wall.

ninefiveone

You can absolutely use cheap tires at the track. Good driving is about handling the car well near the limits, whatever the car or equipment.

I've seen plenty of truly fast drivers in all manner of equipment. If I had a dime for every guy on track tires or "serious" machinery being passed by a "lowly" car on street tires...

Driver's leaning on their equipment create fast cars but that doens't mean they are fast drivers.

Lap times become useful to gauge your progress against a benchmark but aren't the end all be all. If you're racing/competing, of course, that's a different story.

What you might discover, however, is that cheap tires don't always hold up well under abuse. Some tires will chunk, feather and/or wear badly.

starr944

That's true. If you're not racing anyone, you can decide how far you'll push the car based on the equipment. I think most would agree however that using the right equipment for specific conditions is in your best interest.

cantresjr

Buy khumo victory racers, their cheap!
Well cheaper than a good set of street tires.

Tremelune

It's not actually about using a Porsche vs. any car, I just used a 944 as an example because, well, this is Rennlist.

I don't think you're more likely to go into a wall because of unsticky tires, just as you aren't more likely to go into one a wet track. You just need to stay in touch with the laws of physics for the conditions.

Crappy tires chunking under extreme conditions: That's a good point. So far it's the only downside I see besides not actually going as fast as possible.

xsboost90

usually if your racing, you want to win, or at least see how fast or far you can push your car to go. If you are just out to have a joy ride around the track or for the rush of the lap, cheap tires are fine. If you want to be competitive, youll prob. need some better tires. If you are going to push your car, im sure that stickier tires are safer anyways, but dont ask me, i am in it for the fun, i dont have the money to be competitive.

ninefiveone

Actually, r-compounds tend to be less safe in extreme cases. Street tires behave more predictably and fall off their grip abilities less severly than r-compounds. More grip is not safer if the driver doesn't know how to handle the car when there is no grip suddenly. R-compounds do not give the same kinds of warnings at the limits that street tires do. Nor do they give up their grip gradually like street tires do.

R-compounds are not the "right" equipment for everyone's track use just because they're r-compounds. Just as an F1 car is not the right car for everyone's track use just because it's a race car.

I tell this to students all the time only to see one or two ignore the advice, get onto r-compounds before they're learned real car control and then wreck the car. They also induce a lot more stress on suspension components that weren't always designed for that kind of abuse. This often leads people to make suspension upgrades before they're really ready for them as well. A stiff car is often far less forgiving than a soft car.

Do not look to r-compounds to be safer than street tires at all. Appropriate equipment at a race track is a car that is in excellent mechanical condition with a driver that's appropriately protected and has an understanding of their limits. Upgrades are not the same as being safer.

Tom

It depends on what you mean by cheap tires. You can get junk tires that are dirt cheap and they will probably not be up to the job and will be unsafe. You can also get some pretty good street tires that are not terribly expensive and actually work quite well on the track. What you give up in lap times is not relevant if you are really just competing against yourself. This is how I approach DE's. Your choice may be made for you if you wish to keep stock sizing and have 15" wheels.

M758

Track duty puts alot of strain on the tires. Much more than street use. So don't put really crappy junk tires on your car for the track. They may not stand up to the punishment. Skip the 4 for $100 cheap street tire.

That said you DON'T need $200 ea street tires either. My advice to get a deicent set of high performance tires. These can be had for $75 to $100 per tire. Not really that expensive and will be able to safely stand-up to any abuse you can give them at the track.

Another note on R-tires. They are NOT cheaper than street tires since they don't last very long. Kumho will get you 5-10 track days depending on how a hard you run which is about 500 to 1000 miles.

Matt H

M758 - I think if you amortize how much use you get out of street tires vs. r-compound I think you will find they might be cheaper. Go by 32nd of tread. Since most r-compounds come with 3 (max) and last you 5-10 track days would a street tire (which is going to come with 10-12/32nds, likely 10) last you 15-30 track days? I have seen good street tires toasted in 3 weekends (lets say 6 days, might have been 8 if you factor the Friday sessions). Just a thought.

I still think you can use street tires, I will be doing that first. I just dont think that there is a massive savings. Maybe a little but not a whole lot. Additionally, if you have an off course excursion and ruin a tire, getting home might be a little difficult. Someone is likely to have spare r-compounds, not real likely to have a correct street tire (size) that they are willing to spare. Just some more food for thought.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

OriginalSterm

From personal experience, and talking with ninefiveone at WGI last year, descent street tires are the way to go when learning your car. They are very progressive and it's very obvious, even to a beginner like myself, when the car is reaching it's limits.

As far as going cheap tires, no matter what the driver is doing and what the car has done, vehicle dynamics all comes down to "where the rubber meets the road".

Matt H

OriginalSterm - I will have to charge you for that unathorized use of our company slogan!
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote