It's not stupid unless those doing it make it stupid!

 

Just doing it is stupid.

Trying to justify it is worse.

 

George... in that same respect, then track days are stupid "and trying to justify" them is worse... where's the logic in that??

Let's examine all cases that we've spoken of that some of us consider OK street racing scenarios:

1) Abandoned roads... tell me ANY hazard there except for those driving! I think that one is self-explanitory.

2) Roads not completed yet... and for any of these to be able to be raced on, they will have to be decently wide and pretty straight, such as an access road or the like. All of such roads are closed off from neighborhoods by sound barriers, so no kids will be running accross them.

3)Highway pulls... as we stated before this is at times when traffic is NOT present. Any hazzard that would be present would be there normally, and last time I was on a highway, I didn't notice people walking across!

So "just doing it is stupid" is not really a valid argument... and I haven't seen any other than sob-story's to try to pursuade me against it. Now no one get me wrong here, I am sympathetic to the families of such mishaps, but they could have been prevented! Also, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone against street racing at all, just stating my opinion and points. Lastly, I don't plan on participating in any organized street racing whatsoever... I've outgrown that stage and now see it just isn't worth it!

 

Allow me to address your points, Kevin:
No one ever stated that driving on the track isn't dangerous. HOWEVER, there are far more safety precautions at a DE or club race event that there are at a street race, no matter where the street race is being held. If you don't know this, then you're an ignorant fool. You said you've been to the track a lot (Summit Point, IIRC), so you should know what I'm talking about.
For example, how many street racers require a helmet to race? How many street races have flaggers positioned at blind spots around their course? How many street race courses have run-off areas, and ambulances just in case? The list can go on and on.
No it is not self-explanatory. What you may think is an abandoned road is most likely a not-so-often used road. If you can get to this road, other people can too! Therefore, you cannot guarantee that it will be abandoned.
Yes, they are wide and straight, and guess what? Around the next bend or corner, is probably a crew working on completing the road! Or, maybe that bridge you thought they put in isn't there.
Next time you drive on such a road, why not put a blindfold on? 'Cause that's about what you're doing racing on an unfamiliar road.
The fact is that on highways, TRAFFIC IS PRESENT. Again, you cannot guarantee 100% that there will not be traffic on a highway. BTW: THAT's WHY THEY PUT THE FREAKIN' HIGHWAY THERE: FOR TRAFFIC!
Kevin, I have lost a lot of respect for you. I don't mind debating proper driving techniques and methods with you, but you're stance on street racing shows me that you really have no clue.

What George stated is true: JUST STREET RACING is stupid. Defending and trying to justify street racing, that's ALSO just as stupid.

-Zoltan.

 

Tifo...Thank you for wasting 10 minutes of my life.

 

This has been an interesting and enlighting thread. I for one have done some stupid things, 30 odd years ago, but fortunately only sheet metal was bent, no bodies. I agree that the streets are no place to fool arround, to many unknown variables and too many wanna be race drivers that don't have a clue as to what they are doing. I have often wondered why they don't have better driver training for young people, get them out on a skid pad and see what it feels like to swap ends at 40 Mph and the like. I learened to drive in northern Maine, high school drivers ed ect, sure wasn't much traffic up in the woods, but always wondered " is this all there is to driving?" To those who posted about their kids getting track and auto cross time as soon as they got their license, kudo's. Those kids will turn out to be better drivers for it and have a better understanding of what it takes to control a car. And to those who have to travel to a track or AX, well it's better than the alternative. I have auto crossed in the past, 1973 in Denver Co. at an closed airforce base, Lowery, when I was stationed there, found out what it felt like to swap ends at 60 Mph in a Pinto! That was fun, lets not do that again real soon. It's been a long time since I have done any AXing, hope to soon with the local PCA. Bottom line people, lets keep our head about us and not do anything stupid. It's too much fun just driving arround in our Porsche's to muck it up with a few seconds of ego boosting grandeur.
Drive safe and enjoy, just my 2 cents worth.
Bill
PS. I never had the pleasure of watching my kid learn to drive, don't have any, but I'm sure it can be a pleasure with the right circumstances.

 

They probably would have lived if they were in a 944 instead of a mustang. right?

I think the general rule is drivers that need the car tomorrow to make a living, or will have to sacrifice other leisure activities to scrape knuckles repairing damage exercise a little more caution.

It seems my friends all know how to drive my cars faster than I can drive them.

 

Ever been to California? There's signs all over the highways warning of people (immigrant families most likely) running across the road.

Like I said, after you've seen your friend's face scraped off of her skull, come back and talk to me about street racing or wreckless driving being ok.

 

Well that's too bad Z, because I just lost all respect for you by reverting to namecalling and calling me an "ignorant fool" for backing people up that I know are correct.

My first point wasn't that anyone called driving on the track dangerous... I was giving an example of the quotoed person's logic by using a mock argument that someone using the same logic might retort with.

Let me give you an example of exactly what I consider "safe" street racing Z... becuase you obviously didn't listen or don't get my point:

1) Abandoned roads: Down here in FL we have a place called "The grid." The grid is a group of roads originally intended for a neighborhood. It's out beyond an industrial park. Development of this area stopped years ago and all that was made were the roads. It is illegal to be on these grounds, and every once in a while, some people go out there in the early morning (2-4am) to have some fun. My personal experience there was teaching a friend of mine how to use the ebrake to pull the backend of a car out in a turn. I've known a few bikers who go out there once in a while to have some fun with friends and have a couple races.

2) Roads not yet opened: Back home in VA, a large group of people met at a local BK until about 2 or 3 am. About a mile away, there was a continuation of the Prince William Parkway under construction. The section in reference was a perfect straightaway. A few people would drive out there, check it out and then make a pass. There was no night construction at the time they raced, and if there was, they would have seen it when checking for anyone around.

3) Highway pulls: Route 66 (miles 0-6) back home and many parts of I-95 down here in FL. The sections people I know raced on were completely straight and not near any exits or onramps. The races were usually from 30-130 or so, depending on the cars. They were held between 2-4am just like all previously mentioned places, and would not go on if there was anytraffic in sight. There was ZERO chance of meeting up with any traffic as the roads were completely straight for a couple miles!

Z, every place that the people I am friends with race(d) did not consist of ANY turns, the races were thought out and the places were empty. If they go out and there's any traffic on the highway, they don't race. With the abandoned roads and not-opened roads, the places they were racing were totally straight as well... long enough to race to whatever speed they desired with plenty of space to slow down and then some.

As for the helmet and ambulances you mention, of course track driving is safer for the drivers, but that isn't what I refered to. I said that when done correctly, street racing never has to indanger anyone else OTHER THAN the drivers participating!

...by the way, that local area at the BK back home has all but died out now. The cops found out and now patrol, and the road is now open and well patrolled by police. The scene died out and has moved.

-Kevin

 

Then obviously that area is not the type I'm refering to! Actually, I've had multiple friends killed in car accidents, thank you... and NONE involved street racing. I'm sorry for your loss, but don't think you're the only one with loved one's who have died in car collisions!

Kevin Macdonald, RIP ~1960 (my uncle, who I was named after, killed by a drunk driver while walking across the street with my mom)
Bill Debranski, RIP 1993
Stephan Bailey, RIP 2002
Chris Marshall, RIP 2002
...

 

Oh, so when all this street racing is done at night in the darkness, suddenly it's much safer. I guess that's part of street racing 'done correctly.'

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

You misunderstood: I'm calling you an ignorant fool becuase of your stance on street racing, nothing else.
Ok, let me state in plain and simple: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SAFE STREET RACING! I don't give a flyin' fig leaf where the heck you street race, under what conditions, how abandoned it is, what time of day it is, how 'empty' the road was, how 'controlled' the environment was....yadda yadda yadda. It's not safe. It never was, and it never will be.
I am sure the 99% of the people who participate in driving events that occur on the racetrack admit that what they do is not safe. I just don't get how street racers (or defenders of street racing) think that what they do is safe.

Ok, I will not say anything more here. Most all of you know my stance on this. (Most of you are probably doing this: and saying, "Not Z-man again." ) I'll keep quiet in this thread from now on.

So, move along, nothing else to see here, folks.
-Zoltan.

 

Racing is not safe. When you go to a track, you, and everyone else who is their, and could potentially be on the racing venue, knows this. Everyone goes their for the same reason. Doesn't make it suddenly safe.

So now you go from a purpose-built facility with roads that are well cared for and specifically built for racing, and go to the street. Roads that can fall into disrepair (especially if they are "abandoned"), have unexpected items on them, unexpected motorists, etc. So now you have this extremely unsafe sport, taken into the public where everyone who may become involved doesn't know what's going on. Tell me again how that's safe?

Oh, and my california sign thing was just an example proving your ignorant statement wrong. People anywhere can and do run across the highway, for a variety of reasons. And when cars are travelling at a high rate of speed, it's easy to misjudge how long it will take the car to get to you.

My friends did not die street racing. In fact none of the 5 or 6 deaths at my school last year were racing. They were all wreckless driving, and then something unexpected happened, and they died. In my friend's case, an animal jumped into the road, the driver panicked a swerved, hit a rock sideways at about 50 MPH or so, flipped the car into the air, and wrapped it around a tree. This was a fairly "abandoned" road, as it only leads to a few houses at the very end. They weren't racing, so that whole factor adrenaline wasn't there. They weren't drinking or on drugs; they were simply driving too fast, and were inexperienced, and died because of it.

What if another car had been coming up that "abandoned" road right at that time, say a family van with 5 kids inside? Or when three teenagers crested a hill near my house going 100+, left the road, landed in the other lane, lost control, slammed into a tree and died? This road is also fairly abandoned, long, flat and straight. Did that make it any safer?

If you can't see our points to why street racing, or just driving way too fast on your own, is so incredibly stupid, then I can only hope you don't take anyone else with you.

 

I love how people pay such close attention to what I post...

let me repeat myself, AGAIN:

"As for the helmet and ambulances you mention, of course track driving is safer for the drivers, but that isn't what I refered to. I said that when done correctly, street racing never has to indanger anyone else OTHER THAN the drivers participating!"

I'm not saying that the racing is safe for those participating... all I'm saying is that it doesn't have to indanger anyone else unless you make it that way!

The grid is actually a few square miles of space and the racing isn't done by the entrance... that would be incredibly stupid not only for any saftey issues, but just for getting caught. I can't think of any reason why a family van with 5 passengers is going through an industrial park at 2 or 3 in the morning and sees a posted sign from the city saying that the area they are entering is not a public road and all tresspaser could be prosecuted... can you??

Yeah, this is really becoming a pissing contest now... wow. So please someone else join in and talk about how the circumstances I've mentioned can be soooo hazardous to anyone but those racing. The more the merrier!

*pisssss*

 

Problem is, if they see it as ok to street race there, then they are more likely to do it on actual streets if egged on. Also, many of them may just be going there to avoid the cops, not because they give a damn about anyone's saftey (hey, they're all Schaumachers in their minds, right?). So who says a majority of these people only do it on these streets where it may be safeR than say a crowded main street?

 

I don't vouch for anyone else but myself and my friends who share my ideas on this one. I'm not trying to say "all street racing is safe for everyone and is ok." Further, I'm not trying to advocate street racing in the least. My only point is that street racing doesn't HAVE to endanger anyone else. I do know people that only race on the streets if the circumstances are right. I also happen to know people who don't give a damn, and I don't support what they do in the least!

All I was trying to say is that street racing is not inherently bad, and that it can be done such that the only people at risk are the drivers racing.

That's it!