Bryan

I wonder how much of the power difference between the S2 and 968 engine is due to the 968 exhaust system. The higher redline of the 968 engine will give you more horsepower by definition - a larger rev range over which the engine can do work. But the torque difference between the engines isn't that huge if I recall correctly. And the peak torque is at the same rpm for both engines, so I don't think the Variocam does that much in terms of torque.

However, the 3.0 liter S2 uses the same exhaust system (cat back) as the '89 2.7 8-valve and the '88 2.5 8-valve (talking 5-speed cars here). The S2 cat has larger downtubes and probably more internal volume in the cat, but not much more than the 8-valve cars. The 968 has a much different cat plus dual pipes from the cat back whose combined cross-section is considerably greater than the single pipe systems on the 944s. So I contend that the torque increase of the 968 engine is due in most part to that engine's exhaust system. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this.

Gearing-wise, I created the gearing charts for an '88 5-speed, an S2, and a 968 (gear ratio x final drive ratio). I have an '88 944 with an S2 engine swapped in but the original '88 trans right now. To me, it seems like the 968 trans is ideal - the 968 gears start out taller, but the 968 5th is actually a little shorter than the 944 5th (either one). Then 6th is very tall. Right now, my S2 engined 944 almost doesn't need its first gear. It it so short and the S2 engine is so strong that it feels like a stump puller. The car will pull smoothly and very strongly (there's that torque again) away in second from a walking pace. So a taller first would be excellent. The car also buzzes along at almost 4000 rpm on the highway. So that 6th would be awesome. Plus the torsen diff... But an S2 trans is also an option. Its gearing is a little taller than the '88, but not a whole lot.

I dunno - it's hard to fault the 968 drivetrain according to my calculations. So as long as you like the 968 styling...

Bryan

Z-man

Bryan:
I believe more power can be attributed to the vario-cam system vs. the exhaust system in a 968.

Oh, and in the stock 944S2 gearing, first gear also seems to be too short.

-Z.

TreacherousDog

I test drove a midnight blue 968 back in late november last year. I have to say I was impressed. Style wise for me it's a tough call. I love the look of the 944 but I also really enjoy the more modern styling of the 968. One thing you shouldn't forget, I still see a ton of 944's around (a good thing) but I almost NEVER see 968's driving by. One thing you'll have when you buy a 968 is exclusivity becuase hardly anyone ever sees them or knows about them.

As for how my test drive went. I fell in love with the car immediately. To me it felt just like my 944 except it does everything a little better. I only drove it for 15 minutes and didn't buy it becuase the seller had no records and from the amount of info he had to give me the car may as well have magically appeared on their lot one day

FSAEracer03

Until I see the exhasut system on the 968, I'm going to have to agree with no noe here :P (underbody photos?? anyone??) ...both the mentioned improvements for the 968 generally increase hp, not peak torque. The variocam system allows for higher top end rather than a torquey low end. Exhasut systems can give either more hp or more torque depending on their construction and design, but are generally "improved" by reducing backpressure by expanding the pipes and giving more gasflow. Less backpressure means higher top end hp, but less peak torque (in most cases).

-Kevin

Matt H

If I could find a coupe for the right price I would have a 968. My problem is three fold (exact same problem with 993 BTW).

1) They ALL seem to be convertibles, if I wanted a convertible I would get a much newer (read warrantied) Boxster. Yeah, I actually like the Boxster.

2) When I do find a coupe for sale it is an auto. No need/desire for a tip.

3) When you find a coupe/manual the owner is asking 3 times what it is worth.

When the right one comes along (read silver maybe blue, coupe, manual) then I will probably buy one. The headlights arent my favorite design but as mentioned they do work considerably better.

Z-man, if the 6 speed is so unneccesary why does everyone on the list want one? Same goes for the door handles and mirrors.
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Red1

That's funny how similar that is to the situation I found myself in.

1) I didn't want a cab, though the wife would dearly love one.

2) I test drove a tip. It kept me from buying the car.

3) I was willing to give a little extra to find the 6-speed/coupe, but prices were in there with '91-'92 C2's. The guys that know me know my story on that one.

turbo944

I think you'll find the Variocam system does help with torque though. Look at the dyno charts for them (I have one at home in an Excellence Magazine I believe) and they were comparing it to the 944 Turbo. The Variocam system may not increase the maximum torque, but what it's designed to do is to increase the flexibility of the engine, ie to make the torque curve flatter across the rpm range, which means more acceleration in a gear at a given rpm when you are away from the engines natural max torque area.

Z-man

I should clarify: when driven in it's natural habitat (ie: the track) six speeds is really unnecessary. One might argue that the 6 speed has better gearing, but my counter to that is you can gear a car anyway you like, and you don't need a 6 speed tranny to do so. In my car, 5th gear is probably good for over 150 MPH, if my car could achieve such speeds.

I suppose for the highway, the extra overdrive helps with gas mileage.

You should know by now that my opinions about these cars typically revolve around some sort of track application....

-Zoltan.

Alex Cook

IIRC 6th on the 968 is geared about the same as 5th on the S2. It's just a closer ratio box rather than a Corvette style cruising 6th gear. I read somewhere those things are turning over about 2500rpm at 100mph!

Also I suspect the exhaust doesn't contribute anything to the power improvements - but it does have a deeper sound which I like

Matt H

Z-Man - I got you!

Alex - remember that a Corvette also has a 350 and not a 2.5L 4. They turn 13-1500RPM in 6th at 80.
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josephsc

Quoting Bryan:I have an '87 944 with a 968 engine, but I like it just fine (well, the first IS a little too short). But then this car is pretty much confined to driving around city streets and I'm hardly ever on the highway. I'm sure my highway/track experience will differ.

Since gearing depends so much on application and driver preferences, I wish it was easy to swap them -- street gearing, track gearing, long road-trip gearing....

user 8430

the gearing also on the 6 speed keeps the engine rpms in the powernabd area better than if it were geard different

user 8430

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rsrdan

I agree with Z-man.I have an 89S2 and a buddy with a 93 968.BOTH track ****** but streetable.Both same suspension,brakes,wheels.We are dead even at the 3 different tracks.mine is lighter,but his more power.He has alittle more on top end,but I catch him in the braking area.We play around with different spring rates,valving,brake pads,etc.It is amazing how these two cars are equal.

BTW, Mine was half the price of his.

poindex30

I love the style of the 968. The head lights look very nice when they're down and the back end is much cleaner looking to me. With the proper rims I think the 968 is one of the best looking Porsches ever made.

It's very interesting that the performance is so similar to the S2. I've read that the 968 is 1 second faster 0-60.

I find it hard to believe that 13,000 968s were made as someone mentioned earlier. I see maybe 5 or 6 per year. It is the rarest Porsche in Maryland.

The prices are very high though. Boxster prices are in the high teens and probably in the ball park speed wise plus the interiors look a lot newer.

If I had purchased a black S2 or 951 instead of a dust colored S2 then I would never contemplate a swap but just tonight I was looking at black S2s and 968s.