Greg86andahalf

Hello,

I'm going to upgrade the suspension on my 924S for autocross and possibly track use.

I snagged a set of Weltmeister front and rear sway bars w/adjustable drop links off ebay.

I'm a bit confused as to my shock/strut options. There's so much more info available on 944 set-ups and not that much on 924S. I assume my options may be limited?

I plan to call Paragon and ask their advise. If anyone has input on the best way to go, please chime in.

thanks,
Greg

Skip

Your options are only limited to that available for the early 944 (83-86) as they all use the same inserts. For instance, 8641-1038S is the correct Koni Sport strut insert for use in your car - as well as 83-86 944 and all other 924.

The only difference from your 924S to the other listed 944's is the rear shock. You use steel rear arms same as the 83-85.1 944. For instance, 26-1209S is the correct Koni Sport shock for use in your car - as well as 83-85.1 944 and all other 924.

Good Luck!

Manning

924S of all model years (86-88) have aluminum trailing arms, not steel. The 924S uses the same rear shocks that the late 944s use.

EDIT So actually the correct rear Koni sport shock for the 924S is the 8040-1035-Sport. You can also use Bilstein HDs P30-0104 front and B36-2052 rear. Or if you want to order them from Europe you can order the Bilstein Sports P30-0040 for the front, which are supposed to be something like 20% to 30% stiffer than the HD.

Greg86andahalf

Thanks for the input. I checked the car and found the following:

the rear arms ar indeed aluminum.

I have no stock rear sway bar.

The front "A arms" are all steel with a riveted-in place ball joint.

Front struts are 944 343 031 12

With this info, who is correct Skip or Manning?

Thanks,
Greg

Matt

Dunno about the part numbers, but Manning's right that the rear shock setup is the same as the post-85.5 944. The strut inserts are replaceable, no need to replace the whole strut. Any suspension upgrade that you can do to a 944 you can do to a 924S, and a properly set up 924S will handle extremely well.

I've done lots of suspension work on my car over the past seven years (in fact I have the whole rear suspension out now to replace the springplate bushings and cantilever mounts). What are your goals for the car? Maybe I can be of some help -

Matt

Greg86andahalf

Hi Matt,

Goals- autocross on R compound tires.

I have the Weltmeisters. 28mm front bar, 22mm rear bar.

I plan on strenthening the front control arms and updating the bushings.

I'm thinking:

Font- hyper coil kit (#250?) and Koni sport shocks

Rear- shock replacement, probably Koni sport

any advise would be helpful. I need to order parts and get to work on this car.

Thanks,
Greg

Jason @ Paragon Products

Skip is probably just a little groggy from all of his partying on New Years eve...lol. He meant to say the 924S will have aluminum trailing arms and will use the same shock (8040-1035 Sport) as the 85.5 on 944.

RedlineMan

Hey Greg;

I would offer that you drive the car as is for a while. By all means, prepare to do your upgrades, and buy your other parts, but just get a sense of where you are starting from so that you can see what the changes are as you go.

Having a "controlled study" plan to your improvements is the only way to tell what effect a single mod will have -vs- doing a ton of things at once. This is the best way to learn about chassis tuning and to develope an intuitive sense of which way to go in the future.

Trust me, suspension stuff can be very COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The more you learn now, the better able you will be to get where you want to go. Bolting on new parts is the EASY part!

If you decide on Koni Yellows (a good choice), Jason is your man. (Hi Jason!! ) There's a lot of other fancier stuff up the line, but you don't need to go there... yet!

Manning

I agree with John that Jason is the man. And I have a lot of respect for John as well, but I am not too sure that Konis are the way to go anymore except that they are adjustable, so you can play with the settings and change the rebound damping. My issue is that I am currently on my second set of Koni sport inserts after only 5 years. The current set is an NOS set of yellows as were available as an option on our cars (the ones that have to be removed from the car to be adjusted). Both the first set and this set have cashed in their chips after only a couple years each. Other listers have had similar issues with Koni's lack of durability. Oh, and this car has not been tracked in the time that I have had the Konis on it. Now I am stuck in making the decision as to whether I want to give Koni a third chance or go with Bilsteins, which while not adjustable are quite robust.

Greg86andahalf

Thanks Jason

RedlineMan,

I see your point. This car is being set-up for the upcoming autocross season as a dedicated car. I may not tag it for the road so "seat time" (or lack thereof) is going to be an issue. The car is certainly in no condition suspension-wise to autocross without some freshening up.

I think that at minimum, this tired car needs new shocks and the adjustable rear sway bar will help. I have read that over-stiffening the front could be bad and that's where your advise comes in. If I over-stiffen the front now, I'll have no baseline for comparison, short of letting other experienced 924/944 drivers try the car and give me their comparison opinion. The good thing is that locally, there are a few of us chasing the "better suspension" carrot at the same time. Sharing info can avoid duplicative mistakes.

Michael, I'll keep that in mind. What's the warranty on Koni's?

Thanks,
Greg

Manning

Quote

"KONI Inc. warrants all new KONI shock absorbers to the original retail purchaser (purchased after 5/1/80) against defects in material and workmanship, excluding mounting rubbers, washers and bushings, when used under normal operating conditions for as long as such purchaser owns the vehicle on which the KONI shock absorbers were originally installed. This warranty does not apply to, and KONI makes no warranty for, shock absorbers that have been installed;
• Improperly;
• As original equipment on any vehicle except Ford Mustang SVO;
• On any vehicle that has been modified for a use other than or in addition to its originally intended use;
• For an application that is not specified in the KONI literature;
• On any vehicle that has been used off-road, for racing or for any other driving competition. "

1. Contact dealer from which shock absorbers were purchased, or to any authorized KONI distributor, or to KONI, 1961 International Way, Hebron, KY 41048, attention KONI Warranty, Phone: 859-586-4100, to obtain a Return Goods Authorization number.
2. Provide dated proof of purchase.
3. Provide copy of current vehicle registration form.
4. Provide your name, address, day phone number, make, model & year of vehicle and description of defect.
5. Return defective units) - (freight prepaid) - with all
mounting parts and items 2, 3 and 4.
6. Upon determination of valid warranty KONI will repair or replace at its discretion.

Lousailor

Greg,
You can do most of the updates to your front suspension without 'strengthening' the steel control arm and in fact in some cases it is against class rules (check with your club first). Updating to the later 944 aluminum a-arms would require new wheels with a different offset, as well as a change in the shock strut housings. Check out the 944-Spec web pages for some of the 924Ss that race to see what they've done.

Manning

Actually, you can use the early short aluminum A arms (86) as they are the same length as the steel A arms. You just have to make sure you also use the rear caster block for the Al arms. I've thought about it, but always come to the conclusion that it isn't worth doing.

Markus Blazak (sp?) offers a nice reinforced steel arm, but I'm not sure how much and how quickly you can get them.

Greg86andahalf

Michael, Koni's possible lack of durability is costing you $ each time? Doesn't seem right.

Lousailor,

I will check on class rules for SCCA WDC region and my local PCA club as I run both. I intend to stay with the steel and can weld easily if deemed appropriate. The Blaszak arms located
Here are a bit pricey if Clark's garage is quoting them accurately Here

Thanks much for the help.

Greg

Matt

Greg,

A few thoughts -

Stiffening the front (250#) springs without stiffening the rear will markedly increase the already-existing understeer, and will make for a slower car on the a-x course and track. You'll be spending a lot of time pushing the front tires sideways, trying to get the car turned.

At street speeds the stiffer springs create the illusion of better handling because of the quicker initial steering response, but the car's actual cornering limits will be significantly decreased. A lot of people (including me) make the mistake of just installing stiffer front springs because it's cheap and easy.

With the 250's my car felt good on the steet, but handled horribly on the track, the understeer was awful and just ate up track tires. I tried balancing it out by installing a Weltmeister rear swaybar and setting it stiff, but that helped only a little and created its own problems (unweighting the inside rear wheel in tight turns). My setup has evolved to 325# springs and 29mm torsion bars, and with 225/50/16 front, 245/45/16 rear tires it is very nicely balanced.

Regarding reinforced front control arms -

People run into trouble breaking steel arms most often when they run a stiff front swaybar and soft springs. With that setup, the swaybar is called on to provide a lot of the roll resistance; in a turn, the point where the bar attaches to the arm acts a fulcrum, with the swaybar (on the outside wheel) pushing down on the center of the arm with a lot of force. That's the failure mode for the steel arms, with the outside (loaded) control arm cracking longitudinally across the swaybar mounting point.

Matt