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I might be selling mine but I need to get the seats installed first and would be at the other end of spectrum as it has like 32k miles. A few pics below.
You know as well as I do that if I say “my budget is $20k” then every S2 offered to me will be $20k asking. I’ve played this game before.
I'd disagree with you there, but understand the angle you are working. We just want to know if you are for real or just kicking tires looking for a steal. Every seller thinks it is worth more and every buyer thinks it is worth less. If I were in your shoes, I'd say something like, "I'm willing to pay 20k for a showroom pristine car, 15k for a well kept driver with good options under 100K, and 10 to 12 for 100+k and issues. Then we can discuss where or how to find such a car and if it is a reasonable request. Of course all we have to offer are opinions. If you say I want a clean car, and then when faced with a lot of clean :expensive: cars you call names and complain about asking prices, well, you make yourself look like you are trying to get something cheap and under market, and well, the world is full of tire kickers and we shouldn't be too concerned if the price of admission is to high for you. We, the Rennlisters are just trying to help you, but you've got to be realistic and not insult those of us with a grasp on the current market. Yes, the market is up, and yes, we like it that way.
Good luck with the hunt.
We, the Rennlisters are just trying to help you, but you've got to be realistic and not insult those of us with a grasp on the current market. Yes, the market is up, and yes, we like it that way.
Good luck with the hunt.
I’m well aware of the market. I bought my 964 about 10 years ago, back when nobody cared about them, and have seen them go through the roof. I’ll never sell it though. I have an E30 M3 I bought 12 years ago when they were cheap, and I won’t sell that either. I’ve got plenty of grey hairs, and I earned every one of ‘em. I don’t need help figuring out the market. Just looking for a decent S2. Thanks.
Coming over from the 928 area. Sold my 928 in the fall and keep finding myself trolling the 944 areas now. After reading this thread I have to ask what I've been wondering for months: why isn't there a sticky thread here with "944's, etc for sale" where people can point out vehicles they've seen for sale? Would imagine it'd only help values on these cars? I too am looking for a somewhat cheaper option than my old 928 and value what the guys in each section say about their models.
sorry to offend you so bad with my 18,000 asking price. the first thing I did ask you was what is your budget. You avoided my question amd then aftrr i told you it is a 1991S2 that I brought from Japan with no sunroof and the most awsome porsche script seats left hand you started by accusing me of rippingy you off then saying im full of bs im a fool and im ****ed up.
I really dont think the car is that far off price to get in my face like that. it also has MO30 and limited slip by the way
That's a really nice looking S2. Love the ROW side makers and rear bumper. I put a ROW rear bumper on my S2 (after this this picture was taken). Your 91 ROW Coupe is a real rare bird here in the US since only 510 1991 Coupes were imported into the US. After 5 years of ownership I have been toying with letting my 89 S2 go and this thread has been helpful with real world prices should I decide to pull the pin on this one anytime soon.
A clean M030 / 220 S2 is worth 18 grand all day long. Not sure what someone else might think is fair, maybe if they do not know how rare that is or how much just those parts would cost to buy, used ($5k?) they'd be thinking $12k-$14k?
91s are rare and desirable even without those options. Just the 91 hatch goes for close to $1K.
1989 S2 Red on Black with 134k miles
Records since it was originally sold in 1989 in Wisconsin.
Timing belt service done 1000 miles ago.
Interior is 9/10 with perfect seats and non-cracked aitbag dash.
A clean M030 / 220 S2 is worth 18 grand all day long. Not sure what someone else might think is fair, maybe if they do not know how rare that is or how much just those parts would cost to buy, used ($5k?) they'd be thinking $12k-$14k?
I have some recent experience with exactly that question Joel, prices are pretty current.
I took an '89 S2 in very good condition that was lacking the M030/220 options, which are honestly difficult to find, especially if you're looking for a coupe, which I was. There were fewer coupes than cabs imported to begin with, the field is limited further by the M030 & 220 options. I made it worse for myself because I wanted one in Alpine White. It was like buying hen's teeth.
To add the full M030 suspension and brakes to an '89 starts as a research problem; what does that really mean? The 220 option is easy, it's just the LSD. A rebuilt stock ZF LSD is about $1100 in parts. Then add $300 for the transmission cooler and $100 for a short 5th gear.
The complete M030 package still isn't altogether clear to me though. It's certainly adjustable Koni shocks all around, but I'm not certain it included a coil over rear suspension. Converting the inserts to Koni isn't bad, about $400 in parts. The front struts need to be modified to accept the Koni 30 series inserts, Paragon does the whole thing for about $600 after a $250 core.
The sway bars can be had through Lindsey racing, front and rear for about $800. Front and rear Delrin bushings will add about $300 to that.
I didn't consider replacing the front brakes with the 928 S4 brakes that were installed on the '89 Turbo S since I don't know if those were part of the 944 S2 M030 package. If so, those would be about $1200 in reconditioned/re-built parts.
So we're looking at (approximately) the following parts cost as of maybe 2 years ago on average (doesn't include brakes):
$1500 - Rebuilt ZF LSD + trans cooler & short 5th
$400 - Front struts (do it yourself)
$300 - Rear dampers
$800 - Sways
$300 - bushings
--------
$3300 - Parts for M030 + 220
Labor on this is something else entirely. Unless you hire Paragon to do the front strut conversion you'll need to modify the struts yourself. Paragon does it for $200.
I paid $800 to have the LSD and short 5th installed by a local race shop that specializes in Audi transmissions, but sourced the ZF LSD through Flying Horse Motorsports. Unless you plan to invest $4000 in special tools, subcontracting this work is the only way to go. I did the rest of the work myself. If I were to guess at shop time for these upgrades I'd say:
But of course the dangerous part of this estimate is it doesn't include all the other things you'll do to a 30 year old car while performing the installation of these two options. If you have any sense you'll replace the engine and transmission mounts, torque tube bearings, clutch and you'll likely opt for rear coil overs and 928 S4 front brakes. Do not pass go and add $6000.
If you're like me, you'll also replace the steering rack with a refurbished stock manual rack ($300 in parts if you can find one) or a depowered rack (DIY about $50 in parts and 4-6 hrs in labor). Add about $1000.
Then maybe you take the opportunity to install a Lindsey Racing 3 part front cross member so you can get at the oil pan easily. Add $300 in parts and 3-4 hrs in labor, about $1000.
Then there are the CV joints (all four). Add $300 in parts and another 4-6 in labor. Call it $900.
Altogether maybe another $8000-$9000 in WYIT projects. Total? You're looking at $13,000 added to a base $7000, or a $20,000 to $22,000 car* (ballpark) in today's prices along with a minimum of 6 months downtime (mine's taken over 2 years).
Some things to consider when pricing a high end restoration of an S2 with the M030 and 220 options. These estimates are likely optimistic.
* These costs don't include shipping, handling or taxes. For example, I paid $1500 to have my car moved from Florida to California before I could begin restoration. They're rare enough you'll have to get used to the idea of shopping nationally to find one.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-13-2018 at 02:26 AM.
Maybe an odd question Auto, but how was a Japanese car left hand drive? I thought Japanese cars were all right hand? I've never been there, it was just my impression.
Nice looking car BTW. I'd have to agree the ask is reasonable.
I have previous experience with this seller and can't say enough about him. I've never met him and have no personal relationship with him. We're separated by over 2500 miles and he provided outstanding support for a re-built ZF LSD I bought from him along with a short 5th gear and all of the seals and gaskets I needed for my '89 transaxle. He also assisted with questions and parts that were needed by the transmission expert I hired to install the LSD, which I consider above and beyond the call of duty.
You could do a whole lot worse if you decided to buy a car this guy didn't maintain. What I mean to say is he knows what he's doing and takes care of things with a very rare attention to personal service. Just my $0.02.
Thanks again Dimi.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-13-2018 at 01:56 AM.
04-09-2018, 07:23 PM
