Supercharging a 944 - Why so hard?
#167
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
that's RL user"mattipuh"s car.
with mild head work and hot cam and some other pretty easy stuff they made like 190hp out of a 2.5 8v, that was before the SC and that crazy billet plenum came along.
with mild head work and hot cam and some other pretty easy stuff they made like 190hp out of a 2.5 8v, that was before the SC and that crazy billet plenum came along.
#168
Nordschleife Master
#169
The feed line to the Injectors looks to be a single S/S tube, with four outlets feeding the top (inlets) of the four Injectors. The actual Throttle Bodies are black, which is a standard colour for some of the JENVEY DCOE Style replacements that they make. The angle of the Injectors and the location of the Throttle Plates makes me think they might indeed be a JENVEY product? JENVEY is UK based, and very popular in the European aftermarket world, they also do some OEM stuff for the EU Big Boys.
I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
#170
Nordschleife Master
The feed line to the Injectors looks to be a single S/S tube, with four outlets feeding the top (inlets) of the four Injectors. The actual Throttle Bodies are black, which is a standard colour for some of the JENVEY DCOE Style replacements that they make. The angle of the Injectors and the location of the Throttle Plates makes me think they might indeed be a JENVEY product? JENVEY is UK based, and very popular in the European aftermarket world, they also do some OEM stuff for the EU Big Boys.
I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
#171
#172
Rennlist Member
It looks like a very clever "averaging" system for MAP. With ITBs it's hard to get a steady MAP signal. Many turn to alpha-N tuning (using TPS and RPM instead of MAP and RPM). He's referencing all 4 cyls to get an average signal.
#173
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
i would guess based on the suspicious reservoir, foam-wrapped pump looking thing and pressure regulator on the firewall that it's a water/alcohol injection system.
if so, cleverly done using the stock rail.
also just noticed where the oil filler is... LOL
if so, cleverly done using the stock rail.
also just noticed where the oil filler is... LOL
#175
Nordschleife Master
#176
Did anybody read the GRM article on supercharging their Miata (not the one they blew up)? They said they did it for under $200, although that didn't include already-installed engine management, parts they had laying around, or labor. Their setup seemed pretty simple for modest gains. It piqued my interest and has me asking "how hard could it be?"
#177
When I looked at using a Eaton m62 or m90 I found I was going to have to cut the snout almost to the bearings just to have enough room to bring the inlet elbow around. Plus the throttle would need to be on the elbow and near the front. Creating a super long path which may hurt response. Now mounting the "to the side" and not directly to the intake would make plumbing a bit more complicated but allows an intercooler and the throttle response should be like factory.
this was how the thunderbirds were set up.
this was how the thunderbirds were set up.
#178
Hi, I'm that Hawaii guy. Figure I join in and see what you guys are up to. I have about 2-3k miles on this set-up, tuned up to 5500 rpm @ 6psi....still working on the knock sense config/tune.
I've done all the work myself other than the PNP VEMs from Raceboy (Peep). Basic tools + a cheap MIG welder, all steel work, minimal aluminum.
This is a learning experience for me, while I use the car for SCCA Solo only. Running total is about 3,000usd, this includes the VEMs.
Car is running pretty good at the moment, had to remove the throttle cam...it made it super annoying to drive...super responsive.
Willing to help folks with what I went through.....lots of research...TONs.
Current pulley ratio is 2.09 with the Sable 6.5" to the 3.11" SC
Eventually I hope to get a 2.8" SC pulley to try a 2.32 ratio. Guessing 10psi.....but I'm parting together a pre-sc water injection set-up for under $200 to be controlled by VEMs.
My IATs are +23 from ambient 30 at peak (uphill climbing with moderate acceleration, 60-70mph)
The 951 IC can probably do better, just need to get it better airflow as the early 944 was not meant to house the IC in that stock location.
1983 944 Forged/Sintered bottom end (early engine oem)
AFM, DME, with on/off TPS delete
Radiator mounted lower, recreated front cowl frame, alternator moved to lower location.
Currently modifying Air dam to better isolate the air flow and feed the IC better.
VEMs ECU v3 MAP IAT Bosch OBD2WB integrated + Bluetooth
Eaton m62 GenV from a GM Cobalt SS, inlet cut shorter and rerouted
Bosch Knock Sensor integrated for logging (adde 4k crystal to board)
OEM Crank position/speed sensors used
OEM head temp sensor Bosch e30 IAC
OEM fans are controlled by VEMs 1 stage, both fans.
2x Audi 1.8T aftermarket diverter valves
OEM 944 Turbo Intercooler
4-1 Headers, no cat, 2.5" primary pipes, Dansk Sport Exhaust
High Imp.Deka 80# Injectors (left in batch fire) 3 bar saab fpr
OEM Astra coil twin coil pack for wasted spark/no distributor Audi/Vw 5k type spark plug wires
Audi TPS (direct replacement) Removed aftermarket throttle cam (back to oem with less response)
2000 Dodge Caravan lower radiator hose cut in two for upper hose modification.
Running a Sable crank pulley that I drilled out to fit. OEM is 5", this Sable one is 6.5"
2005 Honda fit belt
I've done all the work myself other than the PNP VEMs from Raceboy (Peep). Basic tools + a cheap MIG welder, all steel work, minimal aluminum.
This is a learning experience for me, while I use the car for SCCA Solo only. Running total is about 3,000usd, this includes the VEMs.
Car is running pretty good at the moment, had to remove the throttle cam...it made it super annoying to drive...super responsive.
Willing to help folks with what I went through.....lots of research...TONs.
Current pulley ratio is 2.09 with the Sable 6.5" to the 3.11" SC
Eventually I hope to get a 2.8" SC pulley to try a 2.32 ratio. Guessing 10psi.....but I'm parting together a pre-sc water injection set-up for under $200 to be controlled by VEMs.
My IATs are +23 from ambient 30 at peak (uphill climbing with moderate acceleration, 60-70mph)
The 951 IC can probably do better, just need to get it better airflow as the early 944 was not meant to house the IC in that stock location.
1983 944 Forged/Sintered bottom end (early engine oem)
AFM, DME, with on/off TPS delete
Radiator mounted lower, recreated front cowl frame, alternator moved to lower location.
Currently modifying Air dam to better isolate the air flow and feed the IC better.
VEMs ECU v3 MAP IAT Bosch OBD2WB integrated + Bluetooth
Eaton m62 GenV from a GM Cobalt SS, inlet cut shorter and rerouted
Bosch Knock Sensor integrated for logging (adde 4k crystal to board)
OEM Crank position/speed sensors used
OEM head temp sensor Bosch e30 IAC
OEM fans are controlled by VEMs 1 stage, both fans.
2x Audi 1.8T aftermarket diverter valves
OEM 944 Turbo Intercooler
4-1 Headers, no cat, 2.5" primary pipes, Dansk Sport Exhaust
High Imp.Deka 80# Injectors (left in batch fire) 3 bar saab fpr
OEM Astra coil twin coil pack for wasted spark/no distributor Audi/Vw 5k type spark plug wires
Audi TPS (direct replacement) Removed aftermarket throttle cam (back to oem with less response)
2000 Dodge Caravan lower radiator hose cut in two for upper hose modification.
Running a Sable crank pulley that I drilled out to fit. OEM is 5", this Sable one is 6.5"
2005 Honda fit belt
#179
^^ Those are nice alts, but I'd prefer search for a cheaper solution firstly....
Edit: This one looks good and its chromed!
http://www.topstreetperformance.com/...BoCoCQQAvD_BwE
Edit: This one looks good and its chromed!
http://www.topstreetperformance.com/...BoCoCQQAvD_BwE
#180