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Supercharging a 944 - Why so hard?

 
Old 12-27-2017, 06:51 PM
  #166  
MAGK944
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Dont know now if this has been posted before, itís race team from Finland is all I know.


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Old 12-27-2017, 07:09 PM
  #167  
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that's RL user"mattipuh"s car.
with mild head work and hot cam and some other pretty easy stuff they made like 190hp out of a 2.5 8v, that was before the SC and that crazy billet plenum came along.
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:31 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket View Post
that's RL user"mattipuh"s car.
with mild head work and hot cam and some other pretty easy stuff they made like 190hp out of a 2.5 8v, that was before the SC and that crazy billet plenum came along.
Do you happen to know what they are injecting through the blue lines to where the factory injectors used to be?
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:59 PM
  #169  
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The feed line to the Injectors looks to be a single S/S tube, with four outlets feeding the top (inlets) of the four Injectors. The actual Throttle Bodies are black, which is a standard colour for some of the JENVEY DCOE Style replacements that they make. The angle of the Injectors and the location of the Throttle Plates makes me think they might indeed be a JENVEY product? JENVEY is UK based, and very popular in the European aftermarket world, they also do some OEM stuff for the EU Big Boys.

I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:28 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by sctanton52 View Post
The feed line to the Injectors looks to be a single S/S tube, with four outlets feeding the top (inlets) of the four Injectors. The actual Throttle Bodies are black, which is a standard colour for some of the JENVEY DCOE Style replacements that they make. The angle of the Injectors and the location of the Throttle Plates makes me think they might indeed be a JENVEY product? JENVEY is UK based, and very popular in the European aftermarket world, they also do some OEM stuff for the EU Big Boys.

I am not a 944 guy, but this is a fun thread to follow.
Thanks, I can see the Jenvey tbís and injectors but Iím asking about whatís being injected through the blue lines into the place where the factory injectors used to sit.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:44 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post


Thanks, I can see the Jenvey tbís and injectors but Iím asking about whatís being injected through the blue lines into the place where the factory injectors used to sit.
Sorry, I missed your real question. After a second look, it Ďmightí be a Manifold Pressure line of some sort. It seems to be connected to an electronic sensor (Input Signal to the Injectors Controller), a Blow Off Valve on the input manifold (It has a black/grey foam cover), and what seems to be a Fuel Pressure Regulator.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:03 PM
  #172  
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It looks like a very clever "averaging" system for MAP. With ITBs it's hard to get a steady MAP signal. Many turn to alpha-N tuning (using TPS and RPM instead of MAP and RPM). He's referencing all 4 cyls to get an average signal.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:47 PM
  #173  
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i would guess based on the suspicious reservoir, foam-wrapped pump looking thing and pressure regulator on the firewall that it's a water/alcohol injection system.
if so, cleverly done using the stock rail.

also just noticed where the oil filler is... LOL
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:04 PM
  #174  
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The blue lines appear to be going to vacuum related components... MAP sensor, bypass valve, FPR
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:10 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by odonnell View Post
The blue lines appear to be going to vacuum related components... MAP sensor, bypass valve, FPR
Agreed it looks like vacuum now that Iíve had a closer look. At first I thought it was water injection like V2.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:27 AM
  #176  
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Did anybody read the GRM article on supercharging their Miata (not the one they blew up)? They said they did it for under $200, although that didn't include already-installed engine management, parts they had laying around, or labor. Their setup seemed pretty simple for modest gains. It piqued my interest and has me asking "how hard could it be?"
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:55 PM
  #177  
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When I looked at using a Eaton m62 or m90 I found I was going to have to cut the snout almost to the bearings just to have enough room to bring the inlet elbow around. Plus the throttle would need to be on the elbow and near the front. Creating a super long path which may hurt response. Now mounting the "to the side" and not directly to the intake would make plumbing a bit more complicated but allows an intercooler and the throttle response should be like factory.

this was how the thunderbirds were set up.
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:44 AM
  #178  
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Hi, I'm that Hawaii guy. Figure I join in and see what you guys are up to. I have about 2-3k miles on this set-up, tuned up to 5500 rpm @ 6psi....still working on the knock sense config/tune.

I've done all the work myself other than the PNP VEMs from Raceboy (Peep). Basic tools + a cheap MIG welder, all steel work, minimal aluminum.
This is a learning experience for me, while I use the car for SCCA Solo only. Running total is about 3,000usd, this includes the VEMs.

Car is running pretty good at the moment, had to remove the throttle cam...it made it super annoying to drive...super responsive.

Willing to help folks with what I went through.....lots of research...TONs.

Current pulley ratio is 2.09 with the Sable 6.5" to the 3.11" SC
Eventually I hope to get a 2.8" SC pulley to try a 2.32 ratio. Guessing 10psi.....but I'm parting together a pre-sc water injection set-up for under $200 to be controlled by VEMs.
My IATs are +23 from ambient 30 at peak (uphill climbing with moderate acceleration, 60-70mph)
The 951 IC can probably do better, just need to get it better airflow as the early 944 was not meant to house the IC in that stock location.

1983 944 Forged/Sintered bottom end (early engine oem)
AFM, DME, with on/off TPS delete
Radiator mounted lower, recreated front cowl frame, alternator moved to lower location.
Currently modifying Air dam to better isolate the air flow and feed the IC better.
VEMs ECU v3 MAP IAT Bosch OBD2WB integrated + Bluetooth
Eaton m62 GenV from a GM Cobalt SS, inlet cut shorter and rerouted
Bosch Knock Sensor integrated for logging (adde 4k crystal to board)
OEM Crank position/speed sensors used
OEM head temp sensor Bosch e30 IAC
OEM fans are controlled by VEMs 1 stage, both fans.
2x Audi 1.8T aftermarket diverter valves
OEM 944 Turbo Intercooler
4-1 Headers, no cat, 2.5" primary pipes, Dansk Sport Exhaust
High Imp.Deka 80# Injectors (left in batch fire) 3 bar saab fpr
OEM Astra coil twin coil pack for wasted spark/no distributor Audi/Vw 5k type spark plug wires
Audi TPS (direct replacement) Removed aftermarket throttle cam (back to oem with less response)
2000 Dodge Caravan lower radiator hose cut in two for upper hose modification.
Running a Sable crank pulley that I drilled out to fit. OEM is 5", this Sable one is 6.5"
2005 Honda fit belt
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:25 AM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by jderimig View Post
^^ Those are nice alts, but I'd prefer search for a cheaper solution firstly....

Edit: This one looks good and its chromed!
http://www.topstreetperformance.com/...BoCoCQQAvD_BwE
People have been picking up Nissan Quest Alternators, compact, higher output and very similar mount.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:29 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by ealoken View Post
Why dont you guys just use a stock 951 cooler? It fits right in the nose, and will do the job for your SC engines
It is some work to cut out the NA guts under the nose, but yes it is the most inexpensive solution if you are willing to cut and fab a bit.
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