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Supercharging a 944 - Why so hard?

 
Old 12-18-2017, 11:27 AM
  #136  
V2Rocket
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ive seen those.
if someone were clever they could fit one of those bricks sort of next to the AOS/brake booster.


there's no point to use an AWIC if you're going to put it where an A/A would fit, because you still have to run pipes.
the point of AWIC is to have a direct connection between SC->IC->intake runners, potentially even in one single unit.


Originally Posted by ealoken View Post
You can use a BMW Water IC. ( 13717575406/405 )
Water cooler where the oem ic is placed.

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Old 12-18-2017, 11:29 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket View Post
ive seen those.
if someone were clever they could fit one of those bricks sort of next to the AOS/brake booster.


there's no point to use an AWIC if you're going to put it where an A/A would fit, because you still have to run pipes.
the point of AWIC is to have a direct connection between SC->IC->intake runners, potentially even in one single unit.
Sorry bad writing.
The water cooler for the awic can be placed where the oem is.
This cooler is not huge, and will wit in tight places, its the size of the oem airfilter box.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:46 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket View Post
ive seen those.

the point of AWIC is to have a direct connection between SC->IC->intake runners, potentially even in one single unit.
The hot setup would be individual a2w cores in each runner of a custom intake manifold. There is alot of space now between and below the current intake runners.
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:29 PM
  #139  
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one big core would be easier to make and probably superior to 4 individual ones.
if you wanted to go down that path i have the AWIC from a supercharged Jaguar with the Jag runners cut off, ready to clean up (cut a little more off the outlet side) and weld to your 944 runners.
it's a beast (very large) and the oil filler cap would need to be relocated (Lindsey sells a kit to do that).
when the jag owners turn up the power this AWIC has proven to be good past 400hp as long as the secondary heat exchanger is up to par.
i'll sell you this AWIC as-is for $75 plus shipping.

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Old 12-18-2017, 02:21 PM
  #140  
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I want to go back to CAD and see if I design one that sits on the MB M62 outlet. Bare cores on that that expensive so fabbing a custom A2W IC doesn't seem that intimidating to me yet. I am thinking a 4.5" x 4.5" by 2" core might do it thermally. Pics to come tomorrow I hope.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:00 PM
  #141  
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So here is the "stack" concept. With the alt relocated I 'think' I can get the SC low enough for the IC stack to fit under the hood. Of course the lower tank casting needs to be tweaked a little because as shown it can't be assembled.

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Old 12-19-2017, 06:32 AM
  #142  
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Do we know how much heat is produced in the SC?
I've got some experience in water-cooling PCs (GPUs as of late) and got an idea. As long as we don't need to remove much more than 1000 watts of heat...
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:25 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by ealoken View Post
Why dont you guys just use a stock 951 cooler? It fits right in the nose, and will do the job for your SC engines
That is what I should have done for my turbo swap. Hindsight is 20/20.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:36 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Ish_944 View Post
Do we know how much heat is produced in the SC?
I've got some experience in water-cooling PCs (GPUs as of late) and got an idea. As long as we don't need to remove much more than 1000 watts of heat...
At full tilt for this project = 1.5 pressure ratio, 300 cfm and 83C temp drop, I am calculating around 20000 watts of cooling required. (with a roots blower).

Last edited by jderimig; 12-19-2017 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 12-19-2017, 11:52 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Ish_944 View Post
Do we know how much heat is produced in the SC?
I've got some experience in water-cooling PCs (GPUs as of late) and got an idea. As long as we don't need to remove much more than 1000 watts of heat...
guessing you're looking at PC radiators...
they are a very nice size and shape and very inexpensive - looked at them too.

they might work if you can get enough water flow and a big enough heat exchanger at the front of the car.

depending which SC you use and boost levels, could be 150C coming out the blower.
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:21 PM
  #146  
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Its relatively easy to get good heat transfer. Its also relatively easy to get low pressure drop. It's relatively difficult to get both at the same time.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:02 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by V2Rocket View Post
guessing you're looking at PC radiators...
they are a very nice size and shape and very inexpensive - looked at them too.

they might work if you can get enough water flow and a big enough heat exchanger at the front of the car.

depending which SC you use and boost levels, could be 150C coming out the blower.
Yeah, I was thinking that radiators and fittings are available in all sizes and pumps operate on 12 volts. The ducting for water/coolant is also much simpler to package than for air since you don't need the constant big diameter. However, the tube will not tolerate temps above 60 Celsius and removing 20 KW heat? I mean, that's a lot of wasted HP right there.

What's the size of the oem IC's core? That would be an indicator. My idea was to place radiators where the turbo oil cooler is mounted but on both sides. The pumps could be operated off of the fog light cables or something. Even standard PC fans could be used to aid air flow in stop and go traffic.

Just thinking out loud...
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:25 PM
  #148  
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Corky Bell recommends 7 sqin of air charge flow area per 100 HP for a liquid to air IC.
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:22 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by jderimig View Post
Corky Bell recommends 7 sqin of air charge flow area per 100 HP for a liquid to air IC.
Wow, if I calculated correctly and this is true, then a single triple 140 mm radiator I was thinking about would be good for a mere 1300 HP. And I wanted to use 2 of them!
Oh, and these are available in 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 inch thicknesses.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:03 AM
  #150  
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I'll use same one as V2 has. It will replace plenum, and the only thing between it and turbo outlet will be factory TB.

Will need to get creative to shoehorn it in though.

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