What to pay for a decent 951
12-05-2003, 10:57 PM
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What to pay for a decent 951
Im thinking about upgrading in a couple months to a decent 951. I have to sell my car first because of the space limitation. I have a 87 na with 81K and i basically want the same thing in a turbo. 87-89 with no more then 80K. Best senario would be a black one. What would be a decent price to pay? I never shopped for a 944 i just bought mine without knowing ANYTHING about the car. I work at a dealership and we got this car in on a trade and i just really liked the way it looked so i bought it without having a porsche tec look it over. Well i was very lucky and the car is problem free (had a tec look it over). Then i started to learn more about it thanks to you guys. Anyway, where should i be looking besides ebay and autotrader and what is some things i should look for on a turbo to make sure the car is good and problem free?
12-05-2003, 11:11 PM
#3
I just bought an exceptionally clean 1988 951 (not "S"). It has 76K, well documented 3 owner car. No wrecks, no mods. Has factory sport seats and LSD. Everything has been done as far as maintenance. New clutch, new A arms/ball joints, fresh belts/seals and water pump. New brakes with cross drilled rotors. Has upgraded Koni M030 spec suspension. OEM 17" Cup alloys with 235 and 265 Pirelli 17s. Car also has a custom welded rollbar - beautiful job since the previous owner did a few DEs and wanted the extra protection. Original Guards Red paint shines bright, but has some nicks here and there in the front clip. No dents or dings though.
Paid $11.9K after looking at about 10-15 cars here in NYC area.
Paid $11.9K after looking at about 10-15 cars here in NYC area.
12-05-2003, 11:40 PM
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I would imagine what you pay will greatly depend on a lot of variables. On the whole I think a good turbo will cost around $9 to $10k. I just decided to sell mine and that is the range I figure.
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12-06-2003, 02:17 AM
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Corky, you got a great deal.
It all depends on what someone wants to sell it for. Personally, I wouldnt take anything less than $14,000 for mine. I have my reasons and if someone doesnt want to pay it, all the better because then I get to keep it. I slaved forever to find it and someone will have to pay dearly to rip it from my cold dead hands. If you dont want to pay a significant premium for mine, go buy someone elses. Wont hurt my feelings.
Personally I think a lot of ppl are parting with their 951s for too low a price. If everybodys lip got a little stiffer, buyers would have little recourse but to pay it or buy a different car (latter probably unlikely). It only takes a few to undercut the market on a niche car like this and force everybody elses hand.
That said, Id be doing just the opposite as a buyer were I looking for another one and if I could steal one from somebody, you can bet I would and not feel guilty about it.
It all depends on what someone wants to sell it for. Personally, I wouldnt take anything less than $14,000 for mine. I have my reasons and if someone doesnt want to pay it, all the better because then I get to keep it. I slaved forever to find it and someone will have to pay dearly to rip it from my cold dead hands. If you dont want to pay a significant premium for mine, go buy someone elses. Wont hurt my feelings.
Personally I think a lot of ppl are parting with their 951s for too low a price. If everybodys lip got a little stiffer, buyers would have little recourse but to pay it or buy a different car (latter probably unlikely). It only takes a few to undercut the market on a niche car like this and force everybody elses hand.
That said, Id be doing just the opposite as a buyer were I looking for another one and if I could steal one from somebody, you can bet I would and not feel guilty about it.
12-06-2003, 10:02 AM
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I paid $8500 for mine 1 year ago, 80k miles, full records with all big ticket maint items done. Its a 9 interior and a 8-9 exterior.
Theres a great looking black 86 on ebay right now for $10k including shipping to anywhere in the USA. I would jump on it if I were looking.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2447088752
Theres a great looking black 86 on ebay right now for $10k including shipping to anywhere in the USA. I would jump on it if I were looking.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2447088752
12-06-2003, 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by RF951
I'm shocked that you haven't sold your car yet Brian.
I'm shocked that you haven't sold your car yet Brian.
12-06-2003, 11:39 AM
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UDPride, completely I agree...
I paid more than what the market said I should have for my car ($14K) but it was what I was willing to pay for getting pretty much what I wanted (bone stock '88 or later, low [48K miles, at the time] miles, white or silver in color, with good provenance and records)...I was willing to go the "S" route if the right car had been available.
I've actually been jonesing for a 993 cab, and would sell my car today if the bucks were right, but i am in NO hurry. Every time I drive that little F***er I pull in the garage with a stupid grin and a h***-on. It would take at least what I paid for the car to move it out of my garage - probably more.
One of the downsides to 951 ownership is also one of the upsides. The upside is that you have a car that is - to the cognoscenti (as our Italian brethern say) - is one of the all-time great sports cars, and one of the all-time great sports car values. These cars are quite rare in the US and the world and are are offered great respect BY THOSE WHO KNOW THE CARS. The downside? The rest of the un-informed masses see just another 944 (not that there is anything wrong with that, as Jerry Seinfeld would say). It is this fact, I believe, that holds prices where they are, coupled with people parting with their cars too cheaply
I do believe the value of relatively low mile, minor modification (I like to think of my cars as being fitted with "minor modifications") cars to increase.
Keith Martin does a piece in AutoWeek each week (duh) that examines a car from a recent auction. A 944 Turbo was featured not terribly long ago and his prognosis wasn't great from an investment perspective. Regardless, we see on these boards every so often another 951 which moves into the ranks of "unrepairable", so sooner or later, these cars will move higher, IMHO.
I didn't buy my car as an investment; I bought it because I knew that I would enjoy the car immensely. Ever since a 951 blew by me coming off an on ramp (spring time yellow with black Fuchs, BTW) I had an itch for one.
When the time was right, I bought one.
OT: I get to Dayton frequently (in my daily driver, that is) and would liove to see your cars some day...I was hoping to make it to one of the SW Ohio GTG but it never panned out...B
I paid more than what the market said I should have for my car ($14K) but it was what I was willing to pay for getting pretty much what I wanted (bone stock '88 or later, low [48K miles, at the time] miles, white or silver in color, with good provenance and records)...I was willing to go the "S" route if the right car had been available.
I've actually been jonesing for a 993 cab, and would sell my car today if the bucks were right, but i am in NO hurry. Every time I drive that little F***er I pull in the garage with a stupid grin and a h***-on. It would take at least what I paid for the car to move it out of my garage - probably more.
One of the downsides to 951 ownership is also one of the upsides. The upside is that you have a car that is - to the cognoscenti (as our Italian brethern say) - is one of the all-time great sports cars, and one of the all-time great sports car values. These cars are quite rare in the US and the world and are are offered great respect BY THOSE WHO KNOW THE CARS. The downside? The rest of the un-informed masses see just another 944 (not that there is anything wrong with that, as Jerry Seinfeld would say). It is this fact, I believe, that holds prices where they are, coupled with people parting with their cars too cheaply
I do believe the value of relatively low mile, minor modification (I like to think of my cars as being fitted with "minor modifications") cars to increase.
Keith Martin does a piece in AutoWeek each week (duh) that examines a car from a recent auction. A 944 Turbo was featured not terribly long ago and his prognosis wasn't great from an investment perspective. Regardless, we see on these boards every so often another 951 which moves into the ranks of "unrepairable", so sooner or later, these cars will move higher, IMHO.
I didn't buy my car as an investment; I bought it because I knew that I would enjoy the car immensely. Ever since a 951 blew by me coming off an on ramp (spring time yellow with black Fuchs, BTW) I had an itch for one.
When the time was right, I bought one.
OT: I get to Dayton frequently (in my daily driver, that is) and would liove to see your cars some day...I was hoping to make it to one of the SW Ohio GTG but it never panned out...B
12-06-2003, 12:48 PM
#14
alpineweiss - I disagree on the value going up. In fact I see quite the opposite. You can now buy 10 year newer Boxster for a little more than you paid for your MY1988 car. They are newer, nice interior (to each his own on that), plenty fast for most, etc, etc, etc. I am 100% sure this is why the price of S2 cabs. has dropped so dramatically. Even wores the Bosters will continue to go down in price when the new one comes out in 05. I looked at about 3 Boxsters (1998+) and none of them were over 20K and I bet I could have walked with one of them at 17K. What we will eventually have is the 944 seen about the same as the 914 and the Boxster move into our category. If things go well in December, I will be driving one soon myself. If not then I will report on our 996 (which is what my wife prefers).
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12-06-2003, 02:02 PM
#15
Getting back to Antonioali's original questions, these were my online resources:
ebaymotors.com
traderonline.com
cars.com
rennlist.com
pelicanparts.com
germanusedcars.com
pca.org (you need to be a member to check out the classifieds)
autoweek.com
In the end, I bought my car through a personal referral by a Porsche mechanic I knew.
I think I have some decent insight to value on these cars, at least in the NY metro area. I'm a 4x 911 owner ('70 911T, '77 Carrera 3.0, '82 911SC and recently a 285HP 3.6 liter '89 Carrera Targa). I decided to give the 951 a try, mostly because I want to spend more time on the track since I took the Skip Barber racing course. I figured the more balanced 951 would be a good place to start my racing career
What I found frustrating in my search for a 951 is that there are too many cars out there! That may sound crazy, but like sitting down to a meal in one of those nuevo Italiano restaurants that have a million good choices, it's hard to narrow things down and pick a car. This is the exact opposite of looking for a nice older 911, which I had always searched for in the past.
The large number of cars out there, will keep prices low for a while, which is a great thing for automotive enthusiasts. As more and more chipped too the max, ill maintained and just plain tired old 951s get put to pasture or wrapped around trees by inexperienced owners, prices may rise (but then again the comments about used Boxsters keeping a lid on things are very valid).
I found that if you are willing to buy a 1986 model with 100K+ miles and you don't have to have a LSD rear, you can definitely get a nice car in the $7K-$9K range. Maybe it needs a little maintenance here or there, but it will be a nice straight driver. If you are like me and want a later model 951 that was a little more sorted, with lower mileage (I mostly wanted something with miles that would be low enough so that when I got out of it, would still be below 100K - I just don't end up keeping cars too long) and if you have to have LSD, then figure $8K-$12K depending on condition and mods. I happened to place a lot of value on fresh tires, brakes, new A-arms/belts/pump, the nice 17" cup alloys which I've always admired, the sport seats and immaculate rollbar installation so I stretched to the top end of what I thought was a reasonable price.
Good luck in your search. What's most important is that you get a good car to start with. Spend the money on a PPI and pass on cars that don't have any records or history. And remember that your time is money also. In the end you can spend an extra 100 hours looking and traveling to find that perfect 951 bargain (and they are definitely out there), or just pay up a little when you find a good one.
ebaymotors.com
traderonline.com
cars.com
rennlist.com
pelicanparts.com
germanusedcars.com
pca.org (you need to be a member to check out the classifieds)
autoweek.com
In the end, I bought my car through a personal referral by a Porsche mechanic I knew.
I think I have some decent insight to value on these cars, at least in the NY metro area. I'm a 4x 911 owner ('70 911T, '77 Carrera 3.0, '82 911SC and recently a 285HP 3.6 liter '89 Carrera Targa). I decided to give the 951 a try, mostly because I want to spend more time on the track since I took the Skip Barber racing course. I figured the more balanced 951 would be a good place to start my racing career
What I found frustrating in my search for a 951 is that there are too many cars out there! That may sound crazy, but like sitting down to a meal in one of those nuevo Italiano restaurants that have a million good choices, it's hard to narrow things down and pick a car. This is the exact opposite of looking for a nice older 911, which I had always searched for in the past.
The large number of cars out there, will keep prices low for a while, which is a great thing for automotive enthusiasts. As more and more chipped too the max, ill maintained and just plain tired old 951s get put to pasture or wrapped around trees by inexperienced owners, prices may rise (but then again the comments about used Boxsters keeping a lid on things are very valid).
I found that if you are willing to buy a 1986 model with 100K+ miles and you don't have to have a LSD rear, you can definitely get a nice car in the $7K-$9K range. Maybe it needs a little maintenance here or there, but it will be a nice straight driver. If you are like me and want a later model 951 that was a little more sorted, with lower mileage (I mostly wanted something with miles that would be low enough so that when I got out of it, would still be below 100K - I just don't end up keeping cars too long) and if you have to have LSD, then figure $8K-$12K depending on condition and mods. I happened to place a lot of value on fresh tires, brakes, new A-arms/belts/pump, the nice 17" cup alloys which I've always admired, the sport seats and immaculate rollbar installation so I stretched to the top end of what I thought was a reasonable price.
Good luck in your search. What's most important is that you get a good car to start with. Spend the money on a PPI and pass on cars that don't have any records or history. And remember that your time is money also. In the end you can spend an extra 100 hours looking and traveling to find that perfect 951 bargain (and they are definitely out there), or just pay up a little when you find a good one.