951Dreams

My 86 has had it's fair share of electronic issues, but not nearly as many as my 87. Sitting seems to really do a number on these cars switches. All my issues on both cars have either just "self-fixed" with use or a switch cleaning. Aside from the interment wipers on the 86. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's just like having it on LOW.

But this week the gremlins have really come out to play. First, my blower motor for the A/C just stopped. It worked when I got home, didn't when I went to leave. Thought I had blown a fuse, but they were fine. So I started suspecting the relay. Took a few days to get around to going to the parts store, it didn't work at all for about 3 days, but the morning I left to go get a new relay it started working! After the quotes I got from O'Reilly and Autozone ($30 and $116 respectively) I decided to just order online ($5).

Then, after working for about 2 days, it stopped again. But this time the windows ALSO wouldn't roll down. I at first thought something was up with the ignition switch and the ON circuit, but the sun roof worked fine. Just the windows and blower fan were out. But they started working as soon as I backed out of my driveway.

So, I'm still going to replace the blower motor relay, but what would take out BOTH the blower motor and the windows???? But NOT the sunroof? Also, my alarm locks the doors a few seconds after the car is started, but they didn't lock this time. Second time that's happened, so it might be unrelated, but does make me think there might be something up with the ignition. The only problem with the ignition theory is that some things worked, the car started and ran, and the dash lights seemed to be working normal.

Any ideas? What could affect the blower motor and windows but not the sunroof?? That's my main question.

Is it possible I could just have multiple relays going south all at the same time?? Seems a stretch...

Schmooey

This does sound like a bit more than the normal
things that are sometimes affected by grounding issues, but have you recently cleaned the grounding points in the chassis? I ask because I had weird issues somewhat like yours that were resolved after I found and cleaned these, and also added several more grounds to the block, just for good measure.

In my case, the flip up headlights worked only sometimes, and after cleaning the grounds, they work perfectly. And, as a bonus, the headliner light and door chime suddenly began to function, and I had just assumed that these were broken from the time I got the car.

951Dreams

I've done a number of grounds, but not all of them yet. The under dash ones are on the list, I'm hoping this week.

mrgreenjeans

My money is on the big grounds you haven't touched yet.
Front and rear.

If not in the cleaning off of those, you are right to assume it may well be in your ignition switch.

Remember watching those you-tube videos of cars burning on the street ?

If not attributed to fuel line ruptures or leaking injectors, the next most common cause for melt down and a totally ruination of our cars is due to dash fires.

I would not tarry long......

951Dreams

I got the new relay but hadn't swapped it out because the problem hadn't returned. Till tonight. Swapping relays didn't fix the issue. So the radio and sunroof work, the windows and blower motor don't. I'm still trying to find an idea of what would effect just the windows and blower motor!

I was thinking maybe it was the ACC key setting not working, since both the blower and windows (I think) will work on ACC. But the radio works on ACC, so it doesn't seem to be that.

I also tried swapping the ignition relay in position G2, that didn't help either. The windows relay is a weird one, so I have nothing to swap in there.

Any idea's at all??? What would take out ONLY the windows and blower motor?? I can't find anything else not working!

GPA951s

Might I suggest taking a look at your battery voltage, Im curious because of relay failures, with with low voltage the current goes up and so does the stress on the relays. Just a suggestion..

951Dreams

Voltage is good at the battery, tested with a good high end multi meter. However, the gauge reads low. But I'm not sure the needle is put on it right. A PO had done white face gauges and on several they were not put back correctly.

I did clean my under dash grounds today. My volt gauge bounces, as well as several others to a lesser degree. No change so I'm still trying to track down that issue as well.

F18Rep

No, they don't like sitting. Park one for a couple years and its a big project getting them back in shape.

Ideas...
Blower motor intermittent idea => see link for blower resistor. pull it, push tooth picks into contacts to hold them open, drop into glass of white vinegar overnight.

Window switch idea...The late window switches can be taken apart and cleaned, I did it once a long time ago, sorry no pics....Bruce

951Dreams

I've done both the switches and the resistor on my 87. But since they both go out together, and come back together, I don't think either is the problem here. But anything is possible on these!!?

I really don't feel it's related, but I did notice they used one of the underdash grounds for the alarm. They had it between the cars ground and the mounts. I switched it so the car ground was on the body, and the alarm mount was on the outside. This issue didn't come up till I had the alarm installed, so it could be that ground is used by windows and blower... I guess. I might unhook it and see later. Right now I'm waiting to see if the issue comes back. And I'm hoping it does when I'm at home so I can dig into it. So far it's fixed itself every time I've had a chance to work on it at home with all my testing EQ.

marc abrams

My money is that it's not a ground problem but a power problem. This is going to be tough and tricky for a remote diagnosis but not impossible. With electrical trouble shooting you need to simply and take it one step at a time to find the common denominator. Two things to start off with. First when the power windows go out, check for power at the power window relay teminal #30 and #87. Now this is important, you have to do this with the relay in place. It's going to be tough to do but a must. Only use a incandescent type test light. No power probe or voltmeter and be sure the key is on. Second, also when the power windows are out check EVERYTHING electrical and see what else is not working to get to the common denominator. Than report back your findings so I can point you in the right direction.

951Dreams

I was fiddling with relays and wiggled G9 (wiper delay timer) and the blower came on. Hmmm... What the heck? Removed it, blower still ran. Ooohhhh k. After more testing seems it was either totally unrelated and just randomly started working at that moment, or the wiggling just happened to get the problem relay working.... Cause reasons.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure all my issues track to G14 (iginition relay X). I can verify that relay is what powers both the blower motor relay and the window winders relay. I got enough testing in to verify they only work when it clicks, and will not work at all with it removed. I can find no other operations it affects, but I'm 100% sure it's the center of my issues. It's either bad, not getting power, or not getting tripped.

I COULD test more to determine for sure, but because of how it's acting I'm pretty sure it's the relay itself. It would sometimes just randomly come on while I was testing. Nothing being touched and nothing changed. Would just click and start working. Got one on the way from Auto Atlanta, $10 shipped. So if that doesn't fix it I'll go through a more in-depth investigation then. It's hard to test because it randomly just starts working on its own, so test are inconclusive.

Just in case anyone any else has this issue and finds this thread here is the relay:

92861511101 928.615.111.01 (for Google searching)



I'll post up final results once the verdict is in.

951Dreams

Had the new G14 relay in for about a week, and it seems to have fixed my issues. I can't be 100% sure yet, it sometimes would work ok for a couple of weeks. But unless I post back, this issue is fixed! If a mod happens to see this, can we change the title to "Power Windows and Blower motor not working"?

951Dreams

Another poster may have a related issue, and since I linked to this post for them I thought I'd also give one last update in case anyone finds this down the road.

It's been over a year. Blower and windows have worked 100% since replacing the G14 relay. I'm now sure, without a doubt, it was the cause.

Stevieporsche

My 944 s2 has random issue with windows and blower not working. Recently I also noticed mirrors and wipers go out with it along with both headlights. And apparently the power to the servo motor that switches your hot/cold air. Just noticed this as I was driving in Omaha where weather is fluctuating from -10 one week to 80 the next week And today back to 25. Drove home with no fan but usually air from road comes in at cruising speed. When I flipped cold to hot. Nothing. So froze half way home til all started suddenly working again.

So I drove to work 3 days last week with it and on the last day home. About 40 degrees out. I had stayed late for work so it was getting dark. Started car and popped lights up/on and about 2 blocks later headlights vanished. It was still dusk so parking lights and dash lights were ok. Blinkers and brake lights worked ok Hazards ok. Cigarette lighter has voltmeter plug in it and reads constant 14volts all the time. Maybe 13.8 with fogs and Fans on, but otherwise no voltage drop

So anyway when headlights go off I usually notice my speedometer quits working which is my visual clue during daytime driving if lights are not on when it occurs, windows, mirrors, blower fan, and wipers go out. I immediately tried all those and nothing worked. Drove 5 mins and tried windows again and all worked fine. Turned lights of and on a couple times and all was good. 10 mins down highway and blower fan headlights and all go out again. Also my speedometer sometimes completely quits at same time and other times it will wiggle and waggle from cruising 65speed up to 80 or 90 then drop slowly to 50 and on and on for about a minute or so. When speedo goes back to perfect 65, all systems go again.

Car has not done this one single time since last June when I pulled and cleaned all grounds and replaced several of the relays affecting these systems. Wiper delay relay, G14 relay, ignition relay, headlight and foglight relays, window relay, blower relay, ac relay. Almost all relays are new that would affect these items.
Headlight switch also replaced last June. Maybe 1000 miles on the car since then but I started it and drove it every couple 3 weeks all Winter. And all was fine every time

now 2 days in a row after work. Headlights go up and or blower is turned on and all of a sudden everything listed above randomly goes off for 5 or so mins

no electrical burning smell inside cabin or anything visibly frying and no unknown clicking relay noises

battery alternator and starter connections all checked and voltage holds at 14v no matter what

Car is very clean and in great shape drives like a dream and well maintained. Just very odd thing this past year with this electrical stuff.

I am thinking maybe its the ignition switch. Which is kind of a job but maybe the link between all these items. Car has always started and driven perfectly even while electrical gremlins are happening. Even idles better than my new Jeep, so I am kinda stumped but dont dare drive in the dark dark at this point

radio, dashlights, blinkers, hazards, tach and other guages parking lights, brake lights, cigarette lighter, dome light, even checked glove box light and all work and car drives perfectly when it happens.

Is there any other common power connection between headlights, windows, blower fan, AC button, cooling fans, hot/cold switch, mirrors, wipers, speedometer that may be grounding out somehow?

Anything I can give a swift kick to would be my best optikn at this point. Haha.

Stevieporsche

UPDATE: more fiddling with key in ignition while car is running by turning key like you are starting the car again even though its already running like turning it to starter crank mode. Everything listed above goes off. Wiggling key back towards position 2.5 it all comes on again so seems the ignition cylinder was problem

i bought a $9.00 can ouf Houdini lock fix spray and sprayed it liberally into ignition switch and wiggled key in and out for 10 mins or so then turned key to 1 2 3 positions and tested lights windows. Key now snaps out of lock cylinder like new and turns very smoothly

Probably need to remove and fully clean lock cylinder at some point. Temporary workaround for a while with Houdini lock spray.

Back on the road!