Why a 912?
04-05-2007, 05:09 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski
There are lots of ways to you can build a motor for a 912E. Jake is not the only game in town - lots of people have been building type IV motors for years and getting good power out of them.
Yeah, my motor is a 2270 with somewhere around 180 horsepower. It's really cool to go to somewhere like Watkins Glen and run down the back straight on the tail of a 993 or pass SC like they were standing still. Get out of the car and have people ask "What in that? A 3.6?" and be able to answer, "Nope, just a little four."
Yeah, my motor is a 2270 with somewhere around 180 horsepower. It's really cool to go to somewhere like Watkins Glen and run down the back straight on the tail of a 993 or pass SC like they were standing still. Get out of the car and have people ask "What in that? A 3.6?" and be able to answer, "Nope, just a little four."
Matt,
Tell me about your engine. I've been contemplating how to get more out of my 912. I could build a 616 but by the time I buy a $2k crank / $2k pistons / $1k rods / $1k head work / $1k carbs.......... that's alot of K's. I'm sure building a T4 wouldn't be much cheaper but the end result would be more stout. You mention Jake is not the only game in town, that's good since he strikes me as a bit arrogant and pricey. Some basic issues with the exhaust / sheet metal etc... love to hear your thoughts on this.
Brgds, Peter
04-05-2007, 11:04 PM
#62
Originally Posted by Jay Gratton
Why off line! We would love to see the 912 doing her thing at the track.
04-08-2007, 07:32 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by butzip
Matt,
Tell me about your engine. I've been contemplating how to get more out of my 912. I could build a 616 but by the time I buy a $2k crank / $2k pistons / $1k rods / $1k head work / $1k carbs.......... that's alot of K's. I'm sure building a T4 wouldn't be much cheaper but the end result would be more stout. You mention Jake is not the only game in town, that's good since he strikes me as a bit arrogant and pricey. Some basic issues with the exhaust / sheet metal etc... love to hear your thoughts on this.
Brgds, Peter
Tell me about your engine. I've been contemplating how to get more out of my 912. I could build a 616 but by the time I buy a $2k crank / $2k pistons / $1k rods / $1k head work / $1k carbs.......... that's alot of K's. I'm sure building a T4 wouldn't be much cheaper but the end result would be more stout. You mention Jake is not the only game in town, that's good since he strikes me as a bit arrogant and pricey. Some basic issues with the exhaust / sheet metal etc... love to hear your thoughts on this.
Brgds, Peter
Drop Matt a PM. I doubt he will check this forum. I am sure he would love to talk to you regarding the engine. - Jay
04-25-2007, 09:10 PM
#66
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In the spirit of keeping the thread alive, would you rather drive a 912 (non-E) or a 356 on the track? What would be the benefits and the draw backs of both cars?
04-25-2007, 10:47 PM
#67
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It depends how prepared they are... I mean, some of the track 356s out there have little left from the factory, and I don't know any stock 356 owner who tracks their cars. 1/2 of them have a steering coupler that is one layer of rubber away from separating ;-) If you mean a bone stock 356 SC (for the sake of fairness and disc brakes) or a 912, I'd take the 912 any day. It's more stable overall... It's more like driving an early 911 with less power but more balance (less weight int he butt). And if I do hit something, it won't try to impale me on the steering column !
Then again, the guy I sold my first 356 to ( a C model) recently came by and test drove my 912 and he thought the steering was less lively - in fairness the C was perfect, my 912 needed work...
I remember my mechanic (from back when I lived in Marin county) raced a 912 complete with duck tail and kicked the butt of the 911s around sears point, trophies galore to prove it. IMO, the 912 has better braking and is more stable under braking, has better suspension and front end/steering, you can run fatter rubber, the 356 needs to be brutalized around a corner more. The 912 is more modern, no ifs or buts... Same way a 996 is faster than a 993, despite naysayers.... The 356 SC might accelerate a tad faster due to less weight though...
Then again, the guy I sold my first 356 to ( a C model) recently came by and test drove my 912 and he thought the steering was less lively - in fairness the C was perfect, my 912 needed work...
I remember my mechanic (from back when I lived in Marin county) raced a 912 complete with duck tail and kicked the butt of the 911s around sears point, trophies galore to prove it. IMO, the 912 has better braking and is more stable under braking, has better suspension and front end/steering, you can run fatter rubber, the 356 needs to be brutalized around a corner more. The 912 is more modern, no ifs or buts... Same way a 996 is faster than a 993, despite naysayers.... The 356 SC might accelerate a tad faster due to less weight though...
04-26-2007, 08:10 AM
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Greg,
Thanks for that great post. There was some good information in there. I can only imagine that the 912 wasn't welcomed with open arms by the 356 folks when the 912 was first introduced. Thanks again - Jay
Thanks for that great post. There was some good information in there. I can only imagine that the 912 wasn't welcomed with open arms by the 356 folks when the 912 was first introduced. Thanks again - Jay
04-27-2007, 10:53 AM
#69
Burning Brakes
I can echo Greg's comments. As someone who currently tracks a 912 and 356s in the past. The 912 is simply a better platform. Think about it, you can bolt on any 911 susp goodie available to a 912 and make it handle ungodly. You can't do that to a 356. +1 on the bigger tires and brakes. You can also bolt up an entire 911 front end if you wish for even bigger brakes etc.... I love my 912 on the track. Of course there are many awesome 356s out there but they require some serious mods to perform equal or greater than a 912.
Brgds, Peter
Brgds, Peter
05-04-2007, 09:34 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by hoffman912
why a 912? cause its one better than 911 
its lighter, more nimble, and very stable. it can out handle a 911 easily in the twisties.. i know that one 1st hand... i was with one of my 911 buddies in cali a few years ago, driving through some awesome backroads and twisties. he would easily pull away from me in the straights with his 80s 3.0 carrera, but he couldnt shake me in the twisties. i could have easily passed him and pulled away from him in those switchbacks but i didnt want to be an ***. that being said, you can push a 912 closer to its limits any day of the week and still have a very forgivable car that wont snap away from you as easily (although they can and will get away from you.. i have done it before and had 2 close calls). in a 911, you wont ever get close to really feeling its ultimate limits.
another huge factor is that you will never, ever win the HP race with ANY car. there will always be faster cars with much more hp. there are many faster cars than 911s and 912s. there is no sense in trying to win the HP battle cause you will always have someone else with more HP. but lighter, more nimble and handling.. thats hard to come by.
a 912 has the classic lines, timeless shape and it has all the charm and charisma anyone could ever ask for. they are gorgous, and yet, quite simple to work on which makes it a big plus.
its lighter, more nimble, and very stable. it can out handle a 911 easily in the twisties.. i know that one 1st hand... i was with one of my 911 buddies in cali a few years ago, driving through some awesome backroads and twisties. he would easily pull away from me in the straights with his 80s 3.0 carrera, but he couldnt shake me in the twisties. i could have easily passed him and pulled away from him in those switchbacks but i didnt want to be an ***. that being said, you can push a 912 closer to its limits any day of the week and still have a very forgivable car that wont snap away from you as easily (although they can and will get away from you.. i have done it before and had 2 close calls). in a 911, you wont ever get close to really feeling its ultimate limits.
another huge factor is that you will never, ever win the HP race with ANY car. there will always be faster cars with much more hp. there are many faster cars than 911s and 912s. there is no sense in trying to win the HP battle cause you will always have someone else with more HP. but lighter, more nimble and handling.. thats hard to come by.
a 912 has the classic lines, timeless shape and it has all the charm and charisma anyone could ever ask for. they are gorgous, and yet, quite simple to work on which makes it a big plus.
Yeah, ok...
I happen to like 912's, and have a friend who just rebuilt one to concours condition, but what you said is complete hogwash.
Your friend that owns the 911 must not be able to drive very well or his car is in need of a tune up. Come on, even common since will knock your theory down.
Every increase of engine size in the 911 body has gone faster than the previous engine.
05-05-2007, 10:43 AM
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Where the set ups different on the 911 and 912? I think a lot of that would come down to car set up and driver skill. Also, there is only so much you can do on back roads anyway.
05-29-2007, 02:35 PM
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To bad that picture wasn't a little more in focus. That is a great photo! We have a few guys in our region who 3-wheel their old 911's around the track. Very cool, just goes to show that your getting a lot out of her. Well done!
I love Pocono it is a lot of fun. You can drive REALLY fast and push yourself a lot since there is so much run off room.
I love Pocono it is a lot of fun. You can drive REALLY fast and push yourself a lot since there is so much run off room.
05-29-2007, 06:07 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by flatsixnut
Yeah, ok...
I happen to like 912's, and have a friend who just rebuilt one to concours condition, but what you said is complete hogwash.
Your friend that owns the 911 must not be able to drive very well or his car is in need of a tune up. Come on, even common since will knock your theory down.
Every increase of engine size in the 911 body has gone faster than the previous engine.
I happen to like 912's, and have a friend who just rebuilt one to concours condition, but what you said is complete hogwash.
Your friend that owns the 911 must not be able to drive very well or his car is in need of a tune up. Come on, even common since will knock your theory down.
Every increase of engine size in the 911 body has gone faster than the previous engine.
and every increase in engine size has meant more rear end weight which means worse weight distribution. and every change in body style has meant more weight. In a straight line a 911 can out do a 912 with ease. get em in the switchbacks and its a different story. hp means jack **** in the twisties. weight, and nimbleness mean everything.
05-29-2007, 07:27 PM
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Well, while I'm the first to say good things about 912s and I agree with your comments about the 911s becoming heavier and more rear weight biased, (and I'm admittedly 911 biased), I'd have to say that there is a limit to how little hp means in the twisties. It all depends on how twisty, right? I mean, at some point, whether 911 or 912, the car has to lose speed in many turns, and then accelerate out of the turn. So, hp out of the turn back to higher speed can outweigh speed through the turn depending on the tightness and frequency of turns to straights, right?