Talat

Hi,

I am looking at purchasing a 911 turbo in the near future but can't decide as to whether to go for a late 930 or to spend a bit extra and get an early 3.3litre 964. My questions are as follows:

1. Am I correct in assuming that the 3.3 engine in the 964 is essentially the same engine from the 930 with exception of having a bigger turbo and uprated intercooler ?

2. I have read a lot of literature that indicates that NA 964's with the twin plug 3.6 are mechanically complex and thus are more difficult to work on/service than the 930/993. Is this also the case with the 964 3.3 turbo ?

3. Has anyone got any opinions as to which one they would chose and why ? I am personally leaning towards the 964 purely on looks and the fact that it is newer and I am led to believe handles better. I am not too concerned about the differences in power as I would be looking to modify whichever car I decide to buy.

I apologise for the long post but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Talat.

Kevin

Talat;
If you can afford the 965, get it. I have a 85 930, and have owned many non-turbo 964's. They are a pleasure to drive. It is night and day over my 930. The 3.3ltr is more refined, and the suspension, power steering, creature comforts and 5 speed are all major strong points, plus you have a newer car and a awesome styling package. Thumbs up for the 965 if you can afford it.

930 Turbo

Talat,

I have just bought a 930, having driven several 965s. I take Kevin's points on refinement, but I really enjoy the rawness and the lightweight feel of the 930.

Good luck.

Geoffrey

Talat,

When I was looking for my Turbo, I knew I wanted a 5 speed so that limited my search to 89 and newer, in fact I really wanted a 94 but could not afford it. I also really liked the look of the C2 and the fact that it had an upgraded suspension. However, I ended up with an 89 and now that I look back, I'm so glad that I got one of the early Turbos. Heres why.

The newer ones are heavier, have power steering that you don't need, useless airbag which means you can't put a real steering wheel on it (I like the 930S wheel), has anti-lock brakes which I can't stand because it comes on at the wrong times on the track. Also, if you want to modify it some things are a pain. Such as the factory boost guage reads only .7 bar max and if you want to put a real VDO guage in the clock position you lose many of the idot lights that are now in the clock itself.

The engines are basically the same 3.3 litre that has been around since 78/79 but with a larger more efficient I/C and upgraded Turbo. The C2 has 320hp, a US 86 or newer 930 has 282hp. In reality, if you modify either car, you are replacing the same parts...Turbo, IC, fuel enrichment, etc. The suspensions between the two can be upgraded in similar manners dispite their design differences (torsion bars vs struts and springs). Brakes are slightly larger in a 91/92 and are much larger in 94 (Big Reds) however, you can upgrade any model to Big Reds if you are advanced enough to need them. You can put the same size wheel and tire package on either of the cars, I currently run 245/40/17 and 315/35/17 on mine.

I would definately try to get a 5 speed car as it makes it easier to stay on boost and the G50/50 is the strongest transmission Porsche builds. If you like a driver's car, get an earlier one, if you like the creature comforts of a GT car, get a newer one.

jeff91C2T

I have a 91 C2 Turbo and enjoy the car very much. There's a great comparison that Michael from Imagine Auto did somewhere in the turbo section of the boards. Lots of good detailed info...a good search might turn it up.

While the engines are "essentially" the same there are enough differences to warrant a good look. Just a few things I can think of are the K27, larger intercooler, better P&C's, and crank fired spark. All things you'll be wanting to do to the earlier cars. Still has the CIS fuel injection though . The G50 is a nice perk over the the earlier models.

Regarding weight, my car weighs in at 3120 w/ half tank of gas. Not to much heavier then the ealier models. From a handling standpoint, apply the same upgrades to each model (or stock for that matter), and there's no comparison. The 964 feels much improved over the earlier cars. If your going to be doing any track or autocrossing the ABS is big plus...at least for me. You can go much deeper into the corners with confidence. I wouldn't worry about the air bag in the wheel. The steering wheel is readily swapped out with the sport (non-air bag) versions.

I like the feel of the 964 and probably would never go back to the earlier year models. Although I do miss driving the 911....I always feel even better getting back into mine. Of course I'm biased since I own a 91

Ross

I am in the same situation as far as buying a Porsche goes. I was looking at an 93 RS america with very high miles but they sold it the day before I went to look. Our local Porsche recycler has an 92 C2 Turbo that the owner built for himself and has been driving the last 3or4 years. It is very, very,very nice and in my price range. The car is a theft recovery and the only thing they took was the engine. The engine was replaced with a theft recovered engine from a 91 that has only about 10K miles on it and had had some nice mods. I have been going to these guys for years and they have a great reputation. What do you guys think? the car is priced very low and I'd be using it for a semi-daily driver so collectability isn't an issue.

Thanks for your replies,
Ross

KeithC2Turto

930 v C2T, I belive the C2 Turbo 3.3 has: Stonger case at cyl, stronger 993 fully threded head studs, fined cylinders for better cooling, better head to cyl sealing system to hold boost better, oil cooler moved from motor to front of car for better cooling, a second oil filter on motor, more efficent motornic maped ignition system, and more effecent turbo plumping w great I/C & Turbo to save you from having to spend $3k in up grades.

HullarP

It's a matter of personal preference as many of the posts above can attest. I agree that a 5-speed is a great advantage over a 4-speed. But don't limit your search to 89s or newer. Although Porsche didn't offer the 5-speed until then, some have them anyway. My 85 930 has the Ruf 5-speed in it and it is absolutely awesome. Good luck!

Paul H

Kevin

Ross;

If you like the car and it is in your price range go for it. There will be a slight penalty when you sell it, but you are getting a deal from the start. Make sure you take it to a respected shop for a PPI.

pynchon1

Talat,

I purchased my 78 930 several years ago. I took my time searching for the right car, driving numerous 930/911 turbos manufactured from the 1978 to 1991/1992. In the end, I decided to go with the clean/stock 1978 with 25K original miles:

1) Price was better.
2) I preferred the handling of the 1978 over the newer cars. Admittedly, I was biased toward the more "sporty", raw handling of the light weight 1978 having spent years driving and occasionally tracking my 1970 911. Seat of the pants acceleration was comparable.
3) Even though mine was a CA car, it’s a Non-Catalyst early turbo -- thus, presumably, modifications would be easier when it comes to emissions scrutiny.
4) The 78s & 79s had the big "euro" fuel systems easily handling over 400 hp without enhancement.

Good luck with your purchase.

Red 952 Craps

How does the 91/2 turbo compare to a 95/96 non turbo 993? I am looking at buying one of these and they are both hovering about the same price range? I have owned an 88 911 Turbo and I loved it, but enjoy the creature comforts on some of the newer cars. Also this car will be a daily driver so dependability will be an issue. Any advice?

gaijin

I'm very partial to the 930's. Not only because I own one (reason why I do in the first place) but the 930's are pure Porsche. Long before all the EPA, government restrictions and "political" stuff came into play....it was a real car for car folks. Light and nimble (in the right hands). A screamer and was rated the "fastest production car" by the end of the 70's. It is a "no nonsense" Porsche that can be pushed only by a select few to its design limits. It doesn't forgive as easily. Having owned both 911 SC and 911 Carrera, I know. And I have a heck of a lot of respect for my 930.
And the styling! A knockout. You'll never mistake a 930 for anything else other than a Porsche Turbo! A lot was said about its styling. Some compared it to the vivacious curves of a sexy women others hated its arrogant defiance of the wind. Claiming that the wide wheel arches are not aerodynamic. Who cares! At over 80+, it squats and rides like no other. Dare take it to 120+ and you are on the ragged edge.
Live life and not too many second chances not to otherwise.
Best of luck!

ToyCollector

Red 952 Craps,

I have a 993 and a 930S. For fun and giggles, nothing touches the 930. As a driver, and my preferred track/mountain road car, I'd go 993. They are drastically different in feel when it comes to "refinement". The older I get, the more I am enjoying the raw and nasty cars with character.

ToyCollector

Red 952 Craps,

Is long term value retention a consideration for you as well?