Olli

I'd be interested in learning something...doesn't have to be in this thread though if someone objects....

fast951

The 3.2L Motronic is of the same DME family as the 944/951 BMWs and some Audis of the same era.
We rewrote the Motronic code to support Air Mass (vs. VAF or AFM). On the 3.2L NA we offer the MAF conversion MAF .
On 3.2L Turbo as well as 930 with 3.2L electronics we offer a MAF conversion. The MAF sits between the IC and the TB (when a 3.2L manifold is used), we also offer a MAF solution for the 930 owner using the 930 manifold. With each MAF kit you get the appropriate software, where we address AFR and ignition. In addition we provide a PiggyBack to allow the user to fine tune AFR and ignition, data log as well as many other features. PB

For those wanting to upgrade the ignition system or to convert to a twin plug, we offer a Wasted Spark conversion for the Motronic system WS.
There is a thread on the 951 forum where we describe our approach to MAF conversion and its benefits. Here

Sorry for any OT. Feel free to email me directly with your questions or let's start a new thread.

Olli

Very nice, thanks John!

J. Brinkley

when and if my afm fails I'll look into this more.

it'd be nice if there was a plug and play maf that just cloned the signal to dme so no eprom crap, and, less money. The way I read it this isn't possible?

fast951

A MAF that generates a signal like the AFM will have the same limitations imposed by the AFM. You will just eliminate the barn door! It's doable, but there are other items to deal with, such as temp and altitude changes.

J. Brinkley

but there'd be a three inch hole instead of a small rectangle, isn't that the benefit?
I hear you, I've been reading about all the piggy backs, all the options, and enough bookmarks to fill a library.
I did forget about the temp sensor in there though.
(altitude changes in louisiana, lol)

more and more it looks like a maf kit for 2k or a map kit 2k.

Thanks for the info John

PorschePhD

John does good stuff, so I mean no disrespect at all just want to point out a few differences. With many of the systems out there you can control boost, traction control, multiple ignition choices, larger maps and a faster processor. Also most systems support MAP as opposed to MAF. There is a ton of control to many things I am not mentioning but the control is endless with many stand alones.

DonE

Not sure how to take this, but I'll assume friendly.

I was going to refrain from posting my opinion on this because there is no answer to "what is the average cost". I did A LOT of research and the first system I bought was based solely on price - big mistake. The second system was based on support, supplier, ECU reputation and cost. It was a toss up between the Link and Motec. Even though there is a big cost difference, the support, knowledge and advice from Geoffrey Ring made the decision difficult. Don't under-estimate this value.

I looked at my conversion receipts again and have just under $20,000 to date. This includes:

- 2 systems (one sold on eBay)
- all sensors, wire harness, connectors, coils, ignitors, relays, crimpers, AFR gauge
- 3.2L manifold, throttle body, custom intercooler, turbo, cams, pistons, cylinders, valves, springs, fuel rails, injectors
- machine work
- engine rebuild kit from EBS
- misc parts like silicone tubing, clamps, aluminum pipe, oil, AN fittings, steel braided hose, etc (this stuff will eat your lunch)

Included in the above cost are two rebuilds due to (1) crappy ECU and (2) my tuning. For example, my last rebuild cost me right at $1000 in parts and machine work, and about 50 hours of my time.

Although I had the base map (at least to get the engine started) supplied to me, I do all my own tuning. The above price does not include dyno time which was significant (I would estimate $2000).

Was it worth it? Probably. Its very rewarding to do all this work and have it produce +500rwhp and 500 ftlbs. I know a couple of people who sent their motors to shops to get the same treatment and spent twice as much. I know others who sent their motors for similar upgrades/conversions only to have their motors burn up too, but again, paid twice as much as my project. I probably would have been better off to take the $20k plus the original cost of the car and buy a newer model, but so be it.

Today, I took a colleague of mine for a ride. It was in the mid 70's here in Peachtree City and a perfect turbo day. Trying to get away from traffic, I pressed the pedal down about halfway and saw my passenger grip the door and the seat while letting out a little-girl noise. He almost drown out the turbo whistle. Priceless.

PorschePhD

Nothing but sir. My point is you have been down that road and know all the ins and outs as a person who has done several systems and done it yourself and understand the hard work that goes into make these systems right.

fast951

Stephen, I agree with you, the newer standalones offer so many features, it's unreal.
For my own 930 I opted to go with the Motronic. First I had it, I can convert the DME to operate as a standalone with full mapping control and I benefit from the countless hours the factory spent cleaning up cold start, hot start, idle, cruise (all of the features to enhance drivability). Tuning a standalone from scratch for street use is a very time consuming project; I'm sure you already know what I'm talking about.
If I did not have the Motronic parts already, I would have gone to a standalone.

PorschePhD

Ah yes, the cold start, hot start and idle control is the last thing you do and honestly the hardest without question. For the DIY starting from scratch is something I would not want to think about For example we spent 4 hours cleaning up the cruise maps on the SM4. It is all very time consuming to say the least. This is after several days on the dyno.

Of course my 930 is still CIS, but not for long

fast951

You know what they say. Getting 90% of the job done takes 10% of the time. The last 10% of the job takes the remaining 90% of the time. Drivability issues can consume countless hours.

A.Wayne

Not sure which is more challenging , doing the EFI system or finding Clear traffic in Hotlanta.......

911rudy

It's kinda sad to read about how much time and money it takes to go EFI and do the engine mods that make sense. I was sort of thinking that maybe next year I would get it done after asking Stephen last year what it would cost. He quoted me $6,000 approx. and that sounded like a lot at the time. But after reading all of the stories from all of you that have done it, that would be cheap. The thing that I don't understand is why can't a program for a certain type engine be created, ie; 930-3.3, and all of the components hooked up at the builders shop, injectors, temp, altitude, ignition etc. be tested for that program. Then when the system was installed, only adjustments would need to be made on a dyno for that specific engine. I know it would cost some money to set up the system simulator but from then on it would be cost effective. I'm talking out my *** I know but where is this idea unworkable? If it could be done, it would lower the cost considerably.

Geoffrey

Hi John, with your MAF conversion, what sensors are you using to control ignition timing? I'm assuming that somewhere you have a MAP sensor connected and a table in the ECU to help derive ignition angle. Simply using the mass of the air does not give you the detail required to run ignition timing at or near peak performance.