ghostyboy

I have decided to fulfill a life time ambition and buy a Porsche 930. This will be my first 911 although I owned a 944 S2 for many years when I lived in the UK.

There are two 1979 models for sale locally at Park Place (I live near Seattle). One for $28K with 116K miles and another for $35K with 68K miles. (I would post a link here but as I'm first time poster I don't yet have the "rights" to do so).

I have driven the 116K car and found the clutch to be quite heavy compared to all other manual cars I have driven (including the 944S2) - is this normal for a 930 or does it indicate a problem?

Cosmetically both cars are in pretty good condition - particularly the 68K car, but I am curious to know what you guys think of these cars.

DonE

You don't provide enough info to give any kind of opinion on either car. Are they bone stock? Have you had a reputable mechanic look at either? That's your first move rather than asking the list - lot's of opinions here, good and bad. Narrow your search buy paying a knowledeable mechanic to give you an informed opinion and complete prepurchase inspection write-up. These are neat cars, but can eat your lunch (financially and physically) in a hurry if you buy the wrong one. Get your PPI and share the findings with the list. We'll be happy to tell you what we think. Good luck.

dholling13

If you aren't too far away; I would give Kevin at Ultimate Motorwerks a shout.

spuggy

Greets from another ex-pat (returning to Bothell later this year).

Park Place are pretty spendy, IMHO. If you want to pay over the top, Millenium Motors in Redmond also have a number of 911's going through that clean up fairly nicely, again, usually at over-the-odds prices.

I wouldn't pay sticker price at either of those places, just based on their descriptions/adverts and the starting prices for other cars, some on forums such as this.

There's quite often 930's on the Seattle Craigslist, a mixed bag from old nails to garage queens. Wide variety in price/mileage/condition.

Or there's the classifieds on here or on Pelican. The advantage of this approach is that you could easily end up buying a car with a well-known and documented history, from an enthusiast who maintained the car more-or-less regardless of money, who isn't going to vanish from the community just because they sold a car. And very often the previous owner before them will be on here (or there) too.

My 930 hybrid was advertised here and on Pelican; seller is still around and dealing with him was pretty straight-forward and relaxed.

I've never driven a 930 clutch, but most cable-operated clutches have a firmer pedal than hydraulic, and a 930 is at the upper limit of power rating too.

By way of contrast, I once jumped into my 944 in the Seattle airport parking lot after driving another manual car for 10 days, depressed the clutch and thought "@@#$#, the clutch has failed" as the pedal went straight to the floor with apparently no resistance whatsoever. It was fine.

I'd guess it's probably not out-of-the-way for a cable-operated clutch rated to quite high power levels, and that you're just more used to clutches that deal with less power and are hydraulically-operated to boot...

Most everyone here is going to tell you to get a PPI. Which is really good advise. It's not fool-proof, but it's a much better idea than skipping it...

Don't even think about the OPC (yeh, BTDT), you need a wrench who works on these cars regularly and recently. Do the standard common-sense tire-kicking and wheel-wobbling stuff yourself first, and only spring the $275 for cars that you think are worth persuing further.

I bought my N/A 944 from the paper, with no PPI and no service records. I didn't regret it. Yes, I knew I shouldn't have done it this way, but it worked out fine. I certainly wouldn't have done that with a 911 then, and I wouldn't do it now.

DonE is right on the money, these cars can be spendy like you wouldn't believe. I just dropped more money into a motor/gearbox rebuild after a spun #6 big end (and the inevitable - but still restrained - "oh, while we're in there" upgrades) than I paid for the car in the first place. And it /still/ has crummy paint, darn it.

There's a lot of good shops on the East Side, and John Walker in Seattle proper. I used Chris Powell (Chris' German Auto) for 3-4 years myself, but there's a surprising concentration of very good, reputable, shops in the area (why is that?).

If you have no pre-existing relationship with an independent, just choose one close to the car (or you, if you plan on using them for servicing etc. after) that can fit in the PPI in a reasonable time frame.

Ask for recommendations, bound to get lots of responses.

Good luck. There's no guarantees, but if you do it right, you minimize the opportunity for things to go horribly, horribly, wrong. And they are an absolute hoot to drive...

graeme36s

cannot comment on individual cars but inspection is a must.
High mileage car, heavy clutch may need replacement soon. At that mileage could be needing some engine work.
Go for a good 89 5 speed if you can afford it.
happy searching Graeme

YYC930

Welcome to Rennlist.

930 clutchs are all heavy.....even when new. Quite different from a NA 911. You need some good real life 911/930 experience however to determine from feel alone if it is on it's way out.

I've personally bought about 6 cars from Park Place in the last 18 months.......some cars are pricey.......other are not. I have no complaints about them at all.

Barrier Porsche is very close to them and they perform all my PPI's in Seattle.

ZX3tuning

imho, stay away from the higher mileage cars unless they come with a detailed service history from a reputable service shop and or dealer. we bought ours with 15x,xxxkms on the clock but the service book was filled out front to back and all by one shop with reciepts, car came up with no claims and a clear title... after the PPI, we were sold. granted no matter the mileage on the car expect to put anywhere from $1k-10k into the car in the first year or 2 of ownership.
not to scare you off but even the smallest and most trivial problem when you look back on it isn't a cheap fix...

be careful around modifed cars, but that is a statement that applies to all cars, 911s or otherwise. i've been burnt in the past so i try and stay away from modified cars as 9 times out of 10 a modified car has been driven a LOT harder than a stock counterpart. PPI's will show a lot but also make sure you spend some time in the car before you lay down your hard earned money.

when we bought our car we left a deposit and got to take the car for 1 day and 2 nights before we made our decision... not something you are likely to get from a private seller but any good dealer should be cool with this if the car is a good buy. if they are not up for that, usually a good sign that you should walk.

granted it's not always the case but that's my policy.


GL with the purchase!

ghostyboy

Many thanks everyone for the advice/feedback - I really appreciate it.

spuggy

Odd how different people can have different experiences at the same place.

Knowing no better, I had Barrier do a post-purchase checkover inspection and complete fluid change on my '86 944 immediately after purchase, they charged comfortably over $1000 US and had the car all day.

They missed a cracked/split emissions check tube (leaking by the O2 sensor and really confusing the DME causing it to run pig rich), the loose front wheel bearing (which I'd noticed before sitting in the car) and never commented on the cracked/dried-out tires that were as old as dirt, the whining tranny bearings, clutch plate depth, the washer container that wouldn't hold fluid, the non-functional cruise and climate controls and A/C

They also missed that someone had downgraded by removing the rear sway (and the drop link fittings) and fitting a skinny front sway from an '84. I guess that was kind of non-obvious (even though the option sticker had the rear sway code).

They did comment on the overspray from the cheap-*** respray, but that would have been hard to miss.

I never used them for anything but parts ordering afterwards (I already knew about 85-90% of the above, having actually looked at/driven the car) and booked the car into Chris's for the prophylactic timing belt change.

With independents you've got a better chance of getting the hours billed actually spent on the car, just in my experience.

Mercedesben

Check out my for sale listing for this 87 in the classifieds.

UDPride

pedal feel is never going to be as fluid and effortless as a 944. 930s are kind of like driving Peterbilts. Big man parts that have to get yanked and pushed around by men who liked to eat red meat. A 944 pedal/tranny set feels like a Hondas. Silky smooth.

epsdan

The 930 does "drive hard", especially at lower speeds. The steering is "heavy", the brakes take some leg, as does the clutch. These are all good things, though. They provide you with incredible feedback about what the car is doing. I hate hopping in my '05 truck now - automatic, PS that lets me control direction (not steer) with two fingers, and brake with no effort at all.

I'm guessing the two '79's are:

http://www.parkplaceltd.com/vehicle....rent=1&size=50

http://www.parkplaceltd.com/vehicle....rent=1&size=50

I guess I'll echo what others have said. While I have not bought a car at PP, I have spent quite a bit of time on the lot, and you do pay a premium - for the privilege of having a bunch of cars in one spot that you can go look at/drive etc. If you want to take the time to chase cars up and down the west coast, or coast to coast, you can find a "better" car at a "better" price, but you'll probably spend a bunch of time sifting through junk before you find a diamond. I have, but I like doing that too!

Regarding PPI's, thy Gerber Motorsports (www.gerbermotorsport.com) or Chris' (www.chrisgerman.com). I have direct experience with one, and a good recommendation from someone I trust on the other. Disclaimer here - I'm not a big fan of dealers for PPI's.

BTW - I'm looking for a nice car for Seattle too! I have an office there, and am in that area about 1 week/month. Now my only problem is figuring out what - track car, street car, or one that tries to do both.

Have fun in your search.

dan

loot87

Unless you're really partial to 930s, you might also consider a 91. Clutch is still kinda heavy, but lighter than the 930s I test drove before I bought. They go for about the same money as an 89.