911rudy

I couldn't agree more with this thought. We are the ones that can make or break a vender. If a company won't back up there product or make changes after they have been called on a lemon, then we should take them to the wood shed. BlownSix is a good example in that they seem to have responded to complaints about the fit of their product and they seem to be on their way to becoming a reliable company. Also, the small company mentioned above is a good example of a group that we should support if we can get them to meet our needs at a reasonable price and quality. As Rocket said above, go on Ebay and you will cry at the prices of after market products for the rice rockets. And they are good quality as well as look good. My WG is made in Taiwan and is a knock off of the TIAL WG including material and it sells for $250. I don't want to knock a good company but TIAL is very overpriced. Lets face it, a WG has one moving part! It has aluminum and SS steel and a spring and a diaphram. That's it! Where in the hell can you justify $450? The different springs, for my WG, are $18 each and a new diaphram is $20. Have any of you ever watched "How its made" on TV? Once a production line is set up the things come off like leaves from a tree. An IC is different because it has a lot of hand work plus the welding but the company above can still turn them out for less than $700. Think of that; a company can make an IC for almost the same price as a TIAL WG! It would be interesting to see where most of the US manufactuers get their parts from. Lets support this PWR company and see if they can turn out IC's that are what we expect.

Gary R.

If this is what B&B, a "trusted vendor" of aftermarket vendors is selling to us, then I say we need to send a very pointed answer back. Whether it's oil coolers or I/C's you better get your stuff together! What you have in the preceding pictures is a JOKE..and the joke is on all of us...

PorschePhD

Keep writing them. I will forward these comments to Billy himself.

Amber Gramps

in my line of work I sell to companies that make things. they take raw material and turn out finished goods. they buy P. E. resin and produce rotomolded gas tanks, buy wood and build spas, buy aluminum extrusions and make bicycles. I see everyone from the designer, buyer, production manager, QC. and shipping. I know that even 100# of T6 aluminum is not $1800. it is a fairly simple extrusion that any aluminum extrusion company can turn out with eyes closed. A TIG welder may make $20.00 per hour but it doesn't take 150 hours to weld 48 inches. once you have a production card, material, and a Jig it is childs play. any moron can follow directions along and turn out product.

you know what is really funny, one customer produces throttle bodies for 10% of the sell price. they can do "lost castings" for intake manifolds at 50% of sell price. I see the aluminum industry as a cash cow.

anyway, Gary R. this time we are on the same side of an argument and I will be happy to get the names of the guys at PWR. now I just wish I had a 930 to be a loaner car for the project. hmmm

Amber Gramps

this one is just around the corner (driveway queen factory slant euro he got for under $20G)

Addicted

I am new to the Porsche family, buying parts for them and this board. I come here to learn from others experiences, including with particular sellers. This type of thread is exactly what I want to see to know where to send my hard earned money. I run my own company and understand you have to make a profit. I also realize you have to be reasonable in your pricing for what you are putting out. I don't mind paying a small premium for a company that puts out consistent good work that can be trusted. I also understand that there is a difference in pricing a product that you are only going to make 100 a year of as opposed to 10,000 a year. However, quality and customer support have to be there.

Like I said, I am new to the Porsche world. I just bought a 1986 930 Turbo last week. One of the first, what I consider major, purchases that I am thinking of is an IC. I might be up for joining in on trying out PWR. I know that after reading this thread that I would have to be crazy to buy one from B&B. I'll keep watching and learning.

BTW, this is a great board.

kellcats521

Billy could care less, and his 'staff' (I use that term VERY loosely - they are more like circus peanuts) are equally pathetic. I've called them regarding this unit 4x after I bought it.... They were all ears when I called regarding BUYING it, but very snippy when I had issues with it.

1st, I called and said it won't fit before I modified anything on it. I wanted $ back, and they wouldn't do it since I had bought this thing almost 1 yr ago and it sat while I worked on my motor. I was offered an exchange for the 'drop in' unit, but I have no use for it as IMO it's hardly better than the stock IC. At that point I figured that I had no option but to start cutting.
Then I called on 3 occasions to 1) get photos, 2) talk to someone who actually designed/fitted this pig, and 3) to go over my issues with an expert. Also, don't bother using the support service on their website - they ignore that as well....

On no occasion did I talk to Billy (nor did he call me back...), as he always seems to be out racing or screwing around instead of running his company. The 'tech' advisor is a pure clown - he has no clue about ANYTHING regarding this IC, except to say it works and that I must not be skilled enough if I can't see this. He has no pictures, instructions, details, advice..... NOTHING but a sh!tty attitude. I asked who designed it - he claims Billy did , but of course, he's nowhere to be found. I attempted to discuss the specific issues that I have with it, and wanted to send my pictures - he said he couldn't help anyway, and that only Billy would know. Here is a company that probably sells $500,000+ in stuff every year, and only 1 guy can answer questions, who's never there.....

Calling or send him these complaints is as much of a joke as buying their garbage.

PorschePhD

Normally I would say that is the case Pat, but we recently had a run in with some orders, ok a TON of orders and the office was no help. We ended up with Billy's email address and sent a "you need to get on the ball what the hell?" email. He responded within 8 hours and our orders were sent and or corrected as promised. I didn’t think he would answer nor care, but he did. And it did get fixed. I don't know if they don't take the customer seriously enough or if there are other issues since I get a response.

My point is I do enough with them to get an ear and a response. So let me help. I too obviously know there fitment issues as I pointed out what needs to be trimmed, moved etc. I figured out a way not to cut it apart to make it work. I didn't realize that it was such a pain for everyone and I didn't realize that the way they are welding them is varying either. So what might have fit on one guys car might not on the next one sold.

My point is it can not hurt to let me send a rash of customers with issues, comments etc through my accounts. He will answer it I have no doubt.

Addicted

Sounds reasonable. Another problem that occurs with business owners is that after a while you become complacent, because everything runs smooth or seems too. You forget how it was when you first started out and need a reality check every now and then.

911rudy

I believe you are wrong about the B&B "Drop in" because it is almost 90% more cooling capacity than the stock IC. Granted it is not a full bay but the IC lag is less than a full bay. For most street people the B&B short neck is fine. Unless you are going to be in a constant heat soak invironment the full bay IC is an over kill. (IMO)

Amber Gramps

Brandon is the Owner of PWR and Charles is the Production Manager.

Hey, if we combine the "in with the new, out with the old" thread and this one, you think I could walk away with a turbo carrera?

srf506

One reason I haven't started down this slippery slope of modding my 930's motor and IC is the issues you guys are specifically pointing out. What should be a couple of days to a week long job turns into a month to a year because the suppliers of non-OEM parts are so lax on our cars. I understand small business guys wanting to consolidate enough orders in order to make it as economical as possible to build a part, but the type of no answer, bad fitting and poor performing stuff we get is ridiculous and we only have ourselves to blame for putting up with it. My example is no where near as costly as the IC and WG issues we've already discussed but the "cold air induction kit" is another one. Why that pitiful collection of filters and wire ties is any more than $100 is beyond me.

Now I don't want to go crazy with mods on my car. Its an '85 euro that's still pretty much stock. I'm not interested in building a 700-HP beast. I just want to take advantage of 22 years of technological improvement over the original design. But, if I could get a more efficient IC and WG at a reasonable cost that were really "Drop in and Bolt on" I'd be willing to buy them. Now to me the phrase I just used means if I don't want to remove the rear wiper I don't have too, it'll work with the stock IC seal, the stock AC and hoses can remain in place and operational, and all of the hoses fit up and are properly attached to it. Shouldn't be hard in my opinion.

So, if this PWR can do what we think they can, and that they'll work with us to develop the "mild-to-wild" range of ICs for the early and late 930 series cars, for less than a $1000 than I'll commit to helping in the development and purchase of one.

mb911

I can't believe this is even acceptable. I know that if we have aproduct that does not fit correctly as soon as we hear about it ,it is in the works to get it fixed.Now we are much smaller in p-car world then B&B so maybe thats the deal?