2000wrx

I just want to get a sense of the yearly normal opperating cost of a well sorted 930. I hope to be in a position to buy one within a year to year in a half and want to get a better understanding if I can truely afford a 20 year old turbo Porsche.

dholling13

I would say it depends on the condition of your car and how many mods you are looking into doing. The first year I had my 964 turbo, I replaced the front brakes, oil power steering service, and got it re-aligned which = $1800 or so. Then in year two, holy crap as you can see in my signature

2000wrx

Hehehehe yea I know you CAN go nuts, as with any car, I am just wondering if (with a good car) I can pick the pace of the spending more than the car picking the pace. a couple grand a year isn't bad for a 20 year old Porsche IMO.

Last930

If you don't need any big repairs - trans or engine rebuild - the annual cost of oil changes, brake pads, 15K service, etc ought to be $1500-2,000 per year max.

There are so many variables though - how many miles you drive, track use , condition when bought - that it is hard to say what your actual costs would be.

IMHO, the key with these cars is to not get behind the curve in fixing things, the costs to bring a poorly maintained car car back to good shape can exceed the value of the car.

DDD

When you first get a 930, you should figure to spend up to three grand in the first year making it right, from alignment to any minor oil leaks to a new battery to the odd part that needs replacing. Repacking wheel bearings, ect. Also getting the Air/fuel ratio tuned just right and going through the whole CIS system and checking everyting out for general safety. If you bought a good car, this stuff will be minor.

The good news is that once you get the car sorted out, they are reliable. If you don't drive it every day, then the maintenance should just be replacing the occasional worn out parts. That should be no more than a couple hundred bucks here and there. Oil changes are $100 if you take it somewhere, and that is mainly just the cost of the synthetic oil.

You will find yourself spending the lion's share of your money on upgrades like a kid in a candy shop, more than in constant maintenance, if the car is okay to begin with.

A leakdown test and PPI inspection upon purchase will tell you where you are at. Anything on a Porsche can be repaired easily enough except for the unibody of the car. Do not buy a Porsche that has been in so much as a fender bender, in my opinion. And don't buy a Porsche with ANY rust. It is okay to buy a Porsche with a bad engine, because that is fun to replace with an upgrade. But no rust and no body damage, period!

This is not an American car we are talking about. It doesn't just die at 100,000 miles and become a ball of rust. Your Porsche will keep on going and going as long as you pro-actively maintain it. With the turbo, just make sure your air to fuel ratio is always right. And have a good intercooler, which can be ultrasonically cleaned on occasion. Heat is the enemy of the turbo engine.

2000wrx

This is the kind of news I was hoping for, I was starting to look at 1990-2000 FRC Vettes... so cheap and so easy to make fast. But at the end of the day I don't lust after a Vette. Sure they are fast and can take a good beating, and aren't bad looking, but the 930 is a legend and a classic.


Thanks guys!!!

DDD

It is always tempting to take the easy route. The thing about Vettes is that they feel just like all other American big block cars. Drive a early 70's muscle car, drive a 90's Vette or Mustang. You can't tell the difference. Really. Except maybe in corners!

Porsche's are different. And they are also super easy to make fast, and fairly easy to make much faster than any Vette. Only the newest Z06 keeps up.

Heard of the Ruf Yellowbird? Porsches have been going FAR over 200 mph since the late 80's. It still out accelerates the Z06 and has about 25 mph more top end.

Know any Vette that cracks 200 for real? They just tested some Lingenfielder twin turbo thing in Motor Trend, a 2007 model. Couldn't crack 200.

The secret is that Porsches can not only gain power quickly through bolt on stuff, like turbos, but they can lose weight in the blink of an eye as well. It's power to weight, not just power. The Yellowbird has 469 hp. Put that in a Vette and you won't be doing 215 mph.

Plus you want the car that satisfies your craving, if anything, so that you can move on to another life stage where you have fulfilled a dream and can move on to a new set of goals.

DRV2FST

This totally depends on your self control. If you take your time and pick the right car, it will save you some money. If you can control the urge to upgrade the car, it will save you more money.

If you cannot control those urges ... upgrades cost more than the purchase price of the car. It is an addiction that is just as misunderstood but more socially acceptable.

2000wrx

http://www.fastcoolcars.com/callaway_sledgehammer.htm

IIRC the C5 Z06 is within 100lbs of a 930... not to shabby for a car constrained by a lot more gov. regulations than the ol 930.

But at the end of the day both cars can be made equally fast and good at just about anything, but my heart is with the 930, a childhood lust I guess... I just need one

pete77930

I have no self control, and my 930 costs me way too much money...I refuse to total the reciepts. but its worth it every time that turbo spools and the wastgate opens.

2000wrx

^^^^ this is my line of thinking, I want a 911 turbo, It will be my first and last Porsche (most likey) I will make it stupid fast over time. Why, because that is what i want

DDD

A couple things I noticed about that sledgehammer corvette. Ugly as a baboon's butt, I mean hideous. Secondly, weighs 1000 pounds more than a 930. Third, slower by over two seconds than the yellowbird to 100 mph. Which means the yellowbird, or any similiar 930 WALKS AWAY from this car at the speeds we actually drive. Also four times as expensive, at least, over what it would cost you to build a 930 to go over 200 mph.

If a C5 Z06 with all fluids and a full tank of gas weighs 2730 lbs, as in 100 lbs more than my 76' 930, I am shocked. I thought they actually weigh about 3,200 lbs or more with gas and fluids. That was the big thing about the Z06 losing weight, to get down to 3,100 lbs with gas, wasn't it? The difference that you need to remember is that the 930 can drop 300 lbs just by going partially fiberglass, hood, bumpers and front fenders, and changing seats and removing the A/C. The vette is already fiberglass. The 930 can go a lot further from there as well. The Vette is always going to be heavier.

It costs $34,000 to make a reliable 3.9 twin turbo with 700+ hp (I have a quote in my hands), and about $12,000 to make a ultra light and aerodynamic 2,200 lb 930, on top of about $30,000 for the car. If you buy one with a decent engine, you can sell the original engine for close to $10,000 and also sell all the bodywork and interior stuff you remove for another $5,000 or even more. That is a much more potent package than the 215 mph yellowbird, for the cost of a new Z06, or less. The sledgehammer vette has a power to weight ratio of 4.2 or so, and this hypothetical 930 build is right at 3, without running a ton of boost.

My 930 is so light, I often push it around the driveway by myself, sometimes when on my knees in front of the car. It is a car you don't need to start up to reposition, you just walk it. And I haven't started with the weight savings yet.

Clearly, you can make any car faster. I just think that 930s are simple to work on and cheaper to upgrade than people think. A little bit of horsepower goes so much further than a Vette, because the 930 will always weigh a lot less.

2000wrx

Hmmm your car is very light, I was looking up weights the other day and the 930 was listed at 2900 -3000ish... i'll have to double check the numbers in my lil book

Just an FYI 34K into any Vette and you'd have a monster of a motor... You can buy a complete LS7 500HP motor from GM for under 15K, add another 19K

Put that in a Carbon fiber bodied C5 ZO6 and OUCH fast.

I just love the 930, if I wanted pure performance to dolla ratio I would have a Vette, dollar to dollar a lot cheaper to mod than a Porsche. But I love the Porsche, and a Vette is just another belly button.

DDD

The 34K was installed, with all exhaust, turbos, intercooler, wastegates, oil pumps, ect. Total rebuild, with every important part brand new. 700+ hp in a 930, with a low boost engine that will last 100,000 miles and get good gas mileage, is very much like a 1000+ hp in a Vette. You are only half way there with a 500 hp motor. Unless you have a Vette that already weighs 2,300 lbs, like my car will eventually, with just bolt on mods. No radical changes requiring welding or irreversible changes, just some front fenders and bumpers and seats and A/C removal. I am likely to do only the easier things when it comes to weight savings.

How much weight can carbon fibre save on a car that is already fiberglass? It is about an extra two pounds per body panel. What on a Vette can you turn into carbon fibre that isn't already fiberglass? Hardly worth the money in weight savings. Dollar for dollar, the Porsche has it all over a Vette in weight savings. You just can't go much further when you start with fiberglass.

Less weight equals better handling equals better braking equals better gas mileage equals faster. Something American muscle cars are not known for is weighing in around 1 ton.

A '76 930 with all fluids and a tank of gas weighs 2630 lbs. Factory specs, also common knowledge. Heavy steel and zinc coated body panels with thick rubber undercoating.

The '78 and onward weigh 2,800 lbs. Again, factory specs.

91' and up are getting heavier.

Take any year 911 turbo, and compare it to the Vette of that year, and the 911 is faster. Stands to reason that the 911 should stay faster with mods. And Vette owners normally focus mainly on power gains, because the drastic weight savings just are not there. Just turning a Porsche into a fiberglass car, like a Vette, saves you 500 lbs if you do everything. Then we can talk carbon fibre!

I understand that cheap American block engines can be had, but I think that most people underestimate that power to weight ratio includes weight.

If you want to compare cheap stuff, people can buy old 911s all day long for under 10 grand that weigh about 2,300 lbs from the factory and simply put a 3.6 engine in it for another 10 grand, and you have a car approaching 5 to 1 power to weight ratio. These cars can go down to 1,800 lbs.

I think that dollar for dollar, you have a lot of options in a 930 such as drastic weight savings, or just slapping in a better turbo, that most people don't take into consideration at all. Power is only half the equation. You cannot deny weight savings.

The #1 lesson in all racing is that you first make your car as lightweight as the rules allow, before you deal with power increases or anything else, because weight savings trumps all else. It is something for nothing. That is your best value.

2000wrx

Yea I must have been thinking about the later 930's (2800lbs) I didn't realize the earlier cars were so much lighter. I do like light, and with todays modern cars everything seems to get very heavy.

I may take a job in Sweden for a couple of years, when I return the first thing I am going to buy in a nice 930 >)