Techno Duck

First off i know nothing of the 911 Turbo's, especially the 930 type. Its been a dream car for as long as i can rememeber though. I am fairly mechanically savy having done all the work on my 944.. but air cooled and water cooled + front engined is a completlye different beast. Anyhow, i am considering purchase of this 911 Turbo. The owner is my father's friend's brother. From what i was told it was an '88 model, however i realized that the car is a grey market, and is most likely an '85 model.. and was probably imported in '88.

First let me explain the condition of it. It was defenetley left in a garage for most of its life, paint looks to be original and is pristine, no body damage evidence either. Car has 29,500k miles on it currently, 29,525 after my 'test drive' . Interior is in great shape except the power tilt for the seat back does not work, or atleast i could not get it working. Everything else works, a/c is cold ..etc. The passenger side window switch is a bit finnicky but does work. There is an aftermarket exhaust on it but i have no idea of brand. The car is a 4spd and shifts great, no synchro problems like on my 85k mile 944. I checked its garage spot and there is no oil spots or anything of that matter. Also had 15'inch Gotti wheels. 225s in the front... 335s in the rear. Holy crap, im happy the tires are new!

The car drives great. It was my first experience driving a 911, let alone the 930 type. I drove it slowly through the development getting used to the clutch..which takes ALOT of getting used to coming from a 944. It was heavy, but controllable and the floor mount is just plain weird! I grew to like it through. I honestly thought the boost gauge on the tach was broken as i was driving through the area, it never built boost. I then got it onto the open road.. and onto the nearest parkway. I went through the on ramp very slowly remembering the 911, especially the old ones can get you into trouble very quickly. I hit a straight run and was at roughly 3500 in 2nd gear.. punched it and i possibly had the biggest smile on my face since i got laid for the first time.

My father was on the phone in the passenger seat and we were coming up to an over pass.. another punch in 2nd and hes yelling into the phone "WHAT I CANT HERE YOU" and yelling at me to slow down. Haha, what a great car.

Anyhow, here are some pictures..







My main concern is registration and emissions. Does anyone in NY have a grey market type car and know how this works? The car does not have any NY registration or emissions stickers on the windshield, so i am not sure the story behind that (i really dont know much about the car and just test drove it today really). I am going to run a CarFax on the Vin to see what comes up. It does have a regular US style vin.. "WPOZZZ....etc".

I am not 100% sure i am going to buy it yet, as i will be taking out a pretty big loan from my father. But hes ok with doing it though. I also havent quiet figured out insurance for a 21 year old male with a 944 and now a 911 Turbo...

Does anyone have any advice on the grey market factor as well as anything else i should consider? I defenetley will take the car for a PPI if i am really am serious about purchase.

DougM

The ZZZ in the Vin means Euro and it won't show in a CARFAX.

Frank 993 C4S

I'd be very careful with this one. Given that this is a grey market car, are there any records related to the US DOT and EPA certification work done to the car when it was imported? Any records related to the kms when the car was imported to the US? Any maintenance records at all? I assume the 29.5k miles have been on the car since it was imported.

If you're still comfortable that you are getting enough of a discount over what you would pay for a comparable US car have a through PPI performed by a reputable independent shop. I would only purchase the car if the purchase is contingent upon you being able to pass emmissions testing and are able to register it.

Techno Duck

Thanks for all of the advice thus far. I did just run the vin and CarFax does not turn anything up. I need to ask my fathers friend about the history of the car and if it was previously registered or not. Is is possible to look this kind of thing up at the DMV?

Really my only concern right now is the emissions and registration issues which might become apparent.

strudel

I would also look at the year of the tires. If they are over 6 yrs old (some say 4) regardless if they are new, you should replace them. If your going to stay with the 15's then your lookiing at around $1500 + for tires. If you move up to 16's or 17's then your looking at wheels & tires. It all adds up.

A930Rocket

The car looks nice and good advice by all.

I wouldn't worry about the car being a ROW, but as mentioned, make sure you have the PPI, DOT, EPA papers. If you don't have them, you can call both the EPA and DOT to find out and get copies of the paperwork. I did that for an ROW 81 SC about 10 years ago. The price should be a little lower as well for a ROW vs a USA car.

The low milage (if it's truly 29,xxx) is good and bad. Lots of things will look brand new, but without regular driving, they can go go bad like hoses, gaskets and seals, etc.

Let us know how it goes.

BrianKeithSmith

Contact Info for obtaining Vehicle Importation Records - this is the paperwork concerning the conformance of your grey mkt car to US Standards - very important!
U.S. Department of Transportation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Enforcement
Office of Vehicle Safety Compliance
Contact Name : Richard Merritt (may find him in directory as Dick Merritt)
Rm 6115, NEF-30
400 7th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20590

202-493-2266
Kathy Rice is his secretary - 202-366-5291
Main Dept is 202-493-5300 - I think it is a menu system

You simply want to ask for a copy of the vehicle importation certificate for your car based on the serial number. This document will prove that your car has been brought in line with the safety standards at the time the car was imported.


Next thing is to obtain an EPA Compliance document - also called EPA Form 3520-1.
You will contact the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Vehicle Compliance Programs Group
U.S. EPA, VPCD (6405J)
401 M Street, S.W.
Washington, DC 20460
Phone 202-564-9271
Fax 202-565-2057
FaxBack Service for requesting document faxes - 202-564-9660
Contact Person : Ethel Harrison - do not **** this lady off. She works on her own schedule and if you are in a hurry - don't expect her to be in a hurry. I found this out when she blessed me out for asking her where my fax was at 2 hours after I requested it. Work with her. Respect her. She is your friend.

A930Rocket

Is there an echo in here? I just told him what to do!

BrianKeithSmith

Don't get smart with me BOY!



Brian

CrAzYcArGuY

Good information there Brian. Thanks for posting it.

slownrusty

Ok so what am I missing? Are you stating the car has never been registered in the 8+years it has been in the U.S?

The emissions should be OK, just need to buy a cat and muffler off a US car and slap it on and should pass easily enough, even if it does not have a Smog pump.

Yasin

Techno Duck

Brian, big thanks for posting that information, its a huge help!

Yasin, like i said i am not 100% sure what the story of this car is, whether it has not been registerd or possibly its an out of state car. I will try to find out more about it tomorrow.

It would be great to own the dream car at 21, but honestly i am treading lightly with this one.

911rudy

You might want to look into whether the car came with km speedo or miles. It might have been swapped out when it was brought over and the milage could be quite different.
Rudy

slownrusty

Actually this is a hard one to put your finger on. If this car was sold in Continental Europe it would have speedo in miles per hour even the British cars were in mp/h but were of course RHD. If the car was slated for sale in say Australia, Japan etc then yes it would kp/h

My advice is the leak down and compression, that will determine the true engine health.

If the car has been registered in another State previously, then your work just got reduced by easily 50%!!

Yasin

Techno Duck

Yasin, i am pretty sure this car was registered in state (New York) at some point but just it was sitting in his garage for a couple of years. What i found out last night is that the owner passed away a few weeks ago and his wife was left everything. He had a number of 'go fast' kinda cars, a 928S4, Ferarri 355 and this 930. The wife could not find anything involving papers or old tags. She currently only has the lein on it as she went through the court system to show proof of ownership. My father and his friend have alot of experience with the DMV system working with cars that have leins and getting full titles for them.. they will handle all of that in the event i go through with this.

It would be so much easier if i could just CarFax the damn thing!