What pistons & cylinders...
01-30-2006, 11:00 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by m42racer
DonE,
You never ran a 993 3.8LRSR engine with JE Pistons, I must asume? I did for 2 times for a total of 55 Laps. Practice and Race. Both times the Piston failed. The Pin Boss broke, and trashed the complete BTM end. I switched on advice to another Piston make and never had the problem again. The change was not Mahle, but Mahle Pistons never failed like the JE Pistons either. As stated before, you get what you pay for.
Someone who has been named here, has upon hi oggice wall the following quote, "Long after the sweetness of a low cost is forgotten, the bitterness of poor quality remains".
"Sleep tight".
You never ran a 993 3.8LRSR engine with JE Pistons, I must asume? I did for 2 times for a total of 55 Laps. Practice and Race. Both times the Piston failed. The Pin Boss broke, and trashed the complete BTM end. I switched on advice to another Piston make and never had the problem again. The change was not Mahle, but Mahle Pistons never failed like the JE Pistons either. As stated before, you get what you pay for.
Someone who has been named here, has upon hi oggice wall the following quote, "Long after the sweetness of a low cost is forgotten, the bitterness of poor quality remains".
"Sleep tight".
Again, for the vast majority of us who live in the real world of budgetary constraints building street cars or weekend DE cars, I think my comments are still valid.
On another note, what do you guys think about synthetic vs mineral based oils???
01-30-2006, 11:04 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by m42racer
DonE,
You never ran a 993 3.8LRSR engine with JE Pistons, I must asume? I did for 2 times for a total of 55 Laps. Practice and Race. Both times the Piston failed. The Pin Boss broke, and trashed the complete BTM end. I switched on advice to another Piston make and never had the problem again. The change was not Mahle, but Mahle Pistons never failed like the JE Pistons either. As stated before, you get what you pay for.
Someone who has been named here, has upon hi oggice wall the following quote, "Long after the sweetness of a low cost is forgotten, the bitterness of poor quality remains".
"Sleep tight".
You never ran a 993 3.8LRSR engine with JE Pistons, I must asume? I did for 2 times for a total of 55 Laps. Practice and Race. Both times the Piston failed. The Pin Boss broke, and trashed the complete BTM end. I switched on advice to another Piston make and never had the problem again. The change was not Mahle, but Mahle Pistons never failed like the JE Pistons either. As stated before, you get what you pay for.
Someone who has been named here, has upon hi oggice wall the following quote, "Long after the sweetness of a low cost is forgotten, the bitterness of poor quality remains".
"Sleep tight".
01-30-2006, 11:07 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
In the air cooled Porsche, I would run synthetic and due to the turbo application change it often. In an air cooled N/A car, I'd change it later.
I my everyday cars, I use conventional oil, run it 8000k with a filter change after 4000k. 160k, 220k, and on my current A4 I hve 140k so I'm comfortable with my practice. Everyday car gets driven to redline going through the gears most of the time.
I my everyday cars, I use conventional oil, run it 8000k with a filter change after 4000k. 160k, 220k, and on my current A4 I hve 140k so I'm comfortable with my practice. Everyday car gets driven to redline going through the gears most of the time.
01-30-2006, 12:58 PM
#34
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Don, awhile ago I use to ask customers which oil they used in there turbocharged 911.. I could immediately guess/tell by the smell and amount of carbon build up inside of the KKK bearing housing. Dino smells like asphalt, and synthetic smells like vulcanized rubber.. Typically I could clean out 1/4" worth of carbon that impacts the sealing ability of the turbocharger..
01-31-2006, 12:02 AM
#36
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Simon, thanks for the details...
Just when I thought picking p&c should be a simple task. Guess nothing is straight forward with our cars - maybe that's why I enjoy it so much
Just when I thought picking p&c should be a simple task. Guess nothing is straight forward with our cars - maybe that's why I enjoy it so much
01-31-2006, 01:30 AM
#37
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How is the durability of the stock 3.3L Mahle P&C set under high boost? The low compression and partial fins are obviously not the preferred setup, but how would they fair in the 500 to 600 FWHP range? Durabilty and life as compared to the 3.4L Mahle's?
01-31-2006, 03:44 AM
#38
RL Technical Advisor
Originally Posted by Win Rice
How is the durability of the stock 3.3L Mahle P&C set under high boost? The low compression and partial fins are obviously not the preferred setup, but how would they fair in the 500 to 600 FWHP range? Durabilty and life as compared to the 3.4L Mahle's?
Personally, I would not use those partially-finned 3.3 litre cylinders in any high-powered applications. These do not cool evenly enough to prevent leakdown issues.
I would use either the later fully-finned 97mm versions or the 98mm (3.4) ones using the long-skirt pistons (not the Ruf ones).
Last edited by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems; 01-31-2006 at 04:25 AM.
01-31-2006, 09:48 AM
#39
Rennlist Lifetime Member
The biggest issues you find with the half finned is a cylinder that is no long round but oval. The heat disbursement is terrible. So given that disbursement on a standard 300 HP car is not favorable the out come of a 500-600HP would be even worse. There is no way around trying to cool the cylinders better. In a word they are junk. This is why Porsche finally went fully finned with the C2T.
Only issue with the C2T is to be mindful of the deck height. The setup is slightly different in regards to the placement of a .5m shim between the head and the cylinder. It is however a nice up grade.
Only issue with the C2T is to be mindful of the deck height. The setup is slightly different in regards to the placement of a .5m shim between the head and the cylinder. It is however a nice up grade.
01-31-2006, 11:49 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by PorschePhD
The biggest issues you find with the half finned is a cylinder that is no long round but oval. The heat disbursement is terrible. So given that disbursement on a standard 300 HP car is not favorable the out come of a 500-600HP would be even worse. There is no way around trying to cool the cylinders better. In a word they are junk. This is why Porsche finally went fully finned with the C2T.
Only issue with the C2T is to be mindful of the deck height. The setup is slightly different in regards to the placement of a .5m shim between the head and the cylinder. It is however a nice up grade.
Only issue with the C2T is to be mindful of the deck height. The setup is slightly different in regards to the placement of a .5m shim between the head and the cylinder. It is however a nice up grade.
Well, at least there's something that I can be proud of in my anemic little 3.0 Turbo (with fully finned Mahle cylinders) in this high powered crowd!
01-31-2006, 12:35 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Tom Frisardi
Well, at least there's something that I can be proud of in my anemic little 3.0 Turbo (with fully finned Mahle cylinders) in this high powered crowd!
01-31-2006, 01:12 PM
#43
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Big thanks to all the experts!
This thread has been very educational, and gives any turbo owner plenty to think about when choosing pistons and cylinders.
One last question, how do the experts feel about the JB steel lined billet cylinders combined with a properly designed JE piston (or one of Simon's pistons, if he'll leak the information)? This setup may not last as long as a Mahle set, but the steel has about half the thermal expansion of aluminum for less growth, and is a much stiffer material that would have less wall deflection under high horsepower or high BMEP for better ring seal and less blow by. Granted, the thermal conduction is lower, so the cylinder cooling will be less, but would that be a real problem if the proper oil coolers were in place, and larger piston squirters? The lower thermal conduction may even be a plus by allowing the cylinder to maintain a more even temperature around the circumference as opposed to aluminum. Might be good setup for a low miles, high HP street or DE car?
Sorry for the typing frenzy, I just got my coffee
This thread has been very educational, and gives any turbo owner plenty to think about when choosing pistons and cylinders.
One last question, how do the experts feel about the JB steel lined billet cylinders combined with a properly designed JE piston (or one of Simon's pistons, if he'll leak the information)? This setup may not last as long as a Mahle set, but the steel has about half the thermal expansion of aluminum for less growth, and is a much stiffer material that would have less wall deflection under high horsepower or high BMEP for better ring seal and less blow by. Granted, the thermal conduction is lower, so the cylinder cooling will be less, but would that be a real problem if the proper oil coolers were in place, and larger piston squirters? The lower thermal conduction may even be a plus by allowing the cylinder to maintain a more even temperature around the circumference as opposed to aluminum. Might be good setup for a low miles, high HP street or DE car?
Sorry for the typing frenzy, I just got my coffee
