ENGINEERMAN

Hi all:

I am working on my Strosek 930 and noticed that I am getting enough heat coming off the Turbo and Muffler so that some of the wiring in the left tail light assembly is starting to get brittle (melt actually, including the light housing itself).

Since I have the engine out of the car I was thinking that I would try to contain some of the heat coming off of the hot side of the turbo and the muffler. I have a couple of chioces it appears:

1) Thermo Tec makes a fiber reinforced turbo wrap and muffler wrap and self adhesive heat protecting sheet stock. I can use a combinatin of these items to insulate the hot side turbo housing , wrap the muffler and instal the heat sheilding to keep the heat away fro mthe lights and keep the fiberglass cool, or

2) I have heard of a Jet-Hot Sterling product that looks like nickel/chrome but is actually a heat insulating coating designed to keep the heat in and cut down radiated heat by up to 60%.

I would prefer to go the Jet-Hot coating route. I think it would look cleaner, be less bulky and probably be more durable.

Do any of you have experience (good or bad) with one or both of these methods (or any other recommended ways to keep the heat away from the inside of the engine bay)?

If I do decide to go the Jet Hot route, I will have to detach the hot side casting from the turbo. Are there any special procedures that I should be aware of or is it pretty straight forward? Your help based on experience would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Tom

Kevin

What turbocharger do you have? Which K27 there is a difference. Basically the older generation has nuts that must be taken off. The newer gen has bolts.. If I was you.. Send it to Jet Coat... Don't use the thermo wrap.. Ceramic coating does a better job at keeping the heat where it should be vs trapping it and cooking your turbine wheel..

One further note, it is a bitch to take the housings off! If it's all corroded, you will break 2 out of 3 fasteners.. It is not uncommon for me to Fight the 7006 housings for 2 hours..

ENGINEERMAN

Hi Kevin:

I don't think that the Jet Hot process is a ceramic process. Those tend to be brittle and would have a tough time with the thermal stress and expansion/conrtaction involved in the large temerature swings I would think. If yor experience is different please let me know. Also, if you have a tried and true process I am all ears. I do not pretend to have the all the answers.

The numbers on the Turbo are:

K27
ATL-NR: 90 040 0008
AUSF.-NR: 5327 970 70 06

As you can see from the attached photos there are 4 strap bars that hold the housing in place and these are secured by 8 nuts (2 per strap bar). I have been soaking the nuts and the joint with penetrating oil for a day or two anticipating that it could be stuck. What technique do you use to get the halves apart? Any hints?

Also, you can see from the second photo that I have one broken off stud (Muffler Flange side). I was going to set it up in a mill and drill the old one out and then retap the threads. Is that the recommended procedure or is there a better/easier way?

Finally, has anyone ever had the Muffler Jet Hot coated

Thanks for your advise!

Tom

PorschePhD

That is a 7006 K27. I personally like Swain coatings. We have done mufflers from time to time yet I don't knw it there is merit in doing them.

As far as the stud, OH boy. Those are not fun.

Kevin

Yes, you have the 7006 turbocharger. You might want to upgrade to a 7200 or ?

I have enclosed a ceramic coated turbine housing that I did this weekend. I tend to procrastinate when I have to do these things.. So I waited till I had a pile to do. This housing will be bolted up for my test turbo on my 965 project.

senna21

If you go with any kind of ceramic coating you'll need to get the top of the line coating. Unfortunately I don't think the nickel coating will hold up to the heat a turbo sees. 1,300 degrees is a little low for a turbo. I'd like to see something on there that can handle at least 2,000 degrees.

Kevin

The Chrome type coatings that are on the market, have a aluminum base.. They are only good to 1100-1200 degrees max..

ENGINEERMAN

Once again, thanks for the input so far.

I have talked with the people at Jet Hot and for the turbo they recommend the Jet Hot 2000 coating which is rated to 2400°F. The Jet Hot Sterling (rated to 1300°F) would be ok for the Muffler.

After Stephen recommended Swain Tec's process I talked with Dan Swain for a while and interestingly we started discussing the abaibatic engine project that I was involved in in the 1980's with my father (that was an area that was seeing a lot of development and focus at the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and we were quite involved with). Interestingly he told me that Swain Tec was the company who worked closely with Roy Camo at CUMMINS to develope the coatings for their adiabatic engine cevelopment work. Well I was very familiar with the Cummins work and Roy was a freind of my dad's. Cummins was the leader in that area and so I can conclude that if Swain was doing their coating work then they must be pretty good at waht they do!

Dan also explained to me that their process for this application is applying 15 mils (.015 inch) of pure ceramic (the best insulator there is) vs the coatings and as such is more effective for the purpose that I have in mind. Also, their prices are actually equivalent or even a little less than the Jet Hot process. For these reasons I have decided to go the Swain route (thanks Stephen for the recommendation!).

Kevin, with regard to your suggestion to move up to the K27 7200 model, do I have to buy an entirely new turbo or can I just install the 7200 exhaust section? What all is involved and what are the costs. As I said before, my car has plenty of power, is running perfectly and I do not want to take a chance at screwing something up or compromising durability & reliability or get into a very expensive effort to gain a few HP. The car already supposedly puts out around 400 HP, to spend $2000 or more and gain 10 HP or sacrifice reliability to me would not be worth it (that is not to say that for you guys seeking the ultimate performance it's not but for me it would'nt be). I would appreciate any comments detailing what needs to be done and whether I can stilluse any of my existing turbo, or if new parts or an entire new turbo is needed what the costs are, and finally (to end this run on sentence) would the durability or reliability of the engine (with CIS Injection) be compromised.

Thanks

Kevin

The 7006 has a very small compressor wheel. You would have to upgrade to a new turbo. Lag is the issue. The turbine wheel in the 7006 give you a 350-400 RPM hit..

ENGINEERMAN

I'm not sure that I understand you correctly regarding a 400 rpm hit. Are you saying that the new 7200 turbo with it's larger compressor would kick in the boost 400 rpm later, but that the advantage in the larger compressor is that it will not run out of breath at max RPM (red line)?

Is that a problem with the K27 7006? I'm not so sure I would want that since I find myself wishing the boost would kick in a little earlier than the 3200 - 3500 point where it seems to be coming on right now (but again, higher boost at low RPM means high bearing loads vs. continuing boost at higher RPM's which I suppose is a good way to keep the car accelerating hard without necessarily compromising durability very much).

Also, am I correct in assuming that in either case if I leave the Wastegate alone it will still regulate the pressure and not allow for excessive MEP (Mean Effective Pressure) in the cylinders that could reduce durability/life of the motor?

Finally, what would the cost be of a K27-7200 turbo and are there any other modifications that I need to do? If I start doing too many mods I would probably be better off just buying that beautiful red one that one of the members is selling on e-Bay (gring596) that has all of these issues already sorted out.

Thoughts?

Kevin

The 7006 comes on boost 350-400 later.. The larger compressor wheel give you more air till that wheel (7200) runs out of steam. Are you running a 1bar spring? The 7200 came stock on the 965's.. There are thousands of 930's running 7200's It get more exciting bolting on a Hyflow..

ENGINEERMAN

That's what logically makes sense bigger compressor, more air, boost faster. What happens at higher RPM? Does the 7200 performance fall off vs the 7006?

What is a Hyflow? Sorry for my lack of knowledge but you folks have been playing with these cars far longer than I. The good news is that I learn fast and like to do all of my own work. So far I have taken the motor out twice, figured out what was wrong with the clutch and fixed it, etc. but I am still learning and ask a lot of questions (thanks for the patience).

Is the Hyflow a derivative of the K27 7200?

What do these different turbos cost?

Kevin

The 7200 is spent before 5500 RPM's Use the search for Hyflow threads.. The Hyflow is based on both turbochargers, but typically is built on new 7200's.

ENGINEERMAN

Hi Kevin:

I guess the idea is to get the boost down low where it is more practical with the 7200.

Well anyway, I was successful in seperating the nuts and hot housing with ease, one little tap with a plastic hammer and it came right loose. Maybe the penetrating oil helped. I let it soak for 2 days with lots of repeated applications.

I will take your advise and check out the other Hyflow threads.

Thanks for all of your help!

Sameer

ENGINEERMAN,
The highflow is my next turbo and the way to go. A hybrid K27 that doesnt loose breath at top end while retaining the quick spool.