Earlierapex

Hey guys,
It's been a LONG time (I sold Big Bad to Bill Betts almost 4 years ago), but I just can't stay away from a 930 forever. As much as I like the newer cars and that you can get more power for less money with something else, the 930 is just the perfect Porsche for me.

So, I want 500 to 600HP and 2500lbs. I can start anywhere, it just has to look like a 930 and it has to be fairly lightweight for DE's. I want it to work on the track without overheating, so I need lots of cooling and good brakes.

Here are a couple of thoughts:
1) seems to me I should just get a straight tub and have Stephen or someone build the car with lots of fibreglass and lightweight seats, etc. Right?
2) 3.3L or 3.6L? I don't mind a little lag, so I don't have to go twin.
3) which EFI and intake works best? I want something better than stock (I think).
4) Anybody ever consider a turbo'd 964? with classic bodywork? Seems like a pretty good idea to me as you'd get the larger displacement and ABS, although making it as light would be more difficult.

Any suggestions from BTDT crowd? Should I buy somebody's built 930 and try to lighten it? I'm always a little worried about a built car (abused), but I guess rebuilding wouldn't be that big of an expense in the grand scheme.

I'm hoping to spend only $50k, but I'm realistic.

Thanks. Hope you guys have been well.

-dc

PorschePhD

Ill be. It's Mr. Cooper. How are you sir??? Good to see you around again.

Actually there is a Gent on the board by the name of Mark Shock. His car weights nothing and the motor we are building is 600+RWHP. Motec, the works. He might chime in what has been done. The car is stripped and pretty light.

Also Geoffrey is an older body with all the right stuff and BIG HP in a balanced chassis.

If you are moving away from the weight steer clear of the 964. Wonderful cars, but naturally heavier to begin with. If the goal is power to weight start with an earlier chassis and perhaps grab a 964 motor and work with that. You could also stroke a 3.3 to make a 3.5. Personally if I were to do it again I would start with a narrow body tub, add fasteners and fiberglass flairs and start with that.

So many choices.

Geoffrey

I guess it really depends on what you want your end product to look like. If you still want a stock looking body but with light panels, that is one thing, if you are willing to use dzus fasteners, that is another, still a third is to use a factory metal body. It also depends on what suspension you are going to do. If you are going to cut the torsion tubes out of it, then a narrow body chassis can be used with a 5spd trans or standard long 930 trans. You need to figure out what you want the car to look like first.

I might add there is a factory ex Job 97 993 RSR chassis with no engine for sale on ebay and was at about 21k. If you could get the chassis for under 30k, I'd go that route as long as I didn't want to street drive the car.

Stephen's monster was for sale last week and don't know if the guy sold it yet, but that is about as perfect a 600hp car as you can get.

50k is a LIGHT budget for a fast car, especially if you aren't building it yourself. A 600hp EFI engine will be 30k alone give or take a few $$$. If I were doing it again, I'd find someone's abandoned project or car that has been done partially. I've seen RSR replicas for 60k with a N/A engine that can be resold for a turbo engine.

Earlierapex

Mr. Kaspar,
Great to hear from you! I was hoping you would respond. You and over210mph still keep up? Ever do anything with the coates valve guy?

Geoffrey,
Thanks for the feedback. I want a stock looking 930. Torsions are fine. I want a 60% street / 40% track car. I've got lots and lots of track driving and racing experience, but I don't want a racecar. Just a fun DE car. I'll probably drive it on street or near-street tires like the P-Zero-C's, etc. No slicks or coilovers and probably -1.5 to -2.0 of neg camber. Nothing too radical.

I agree that fiberglass body panels are the way to go. I'd like to have a 5 speed, but my understanding is that the 4spd is the only way to go for the power. It's a pretty major deal to put a 930 engine and 4spd into a 911 tub correct? Do I need a 930 tub or could I go with a 911?

I need A/C because I'm in Florida, but I don't want heat or electric windows.

Hopefully, it'll be light enough that I can get away with stock 930 calipers and rotors, but I may need big reds. If I don't use slicks, the stock 930 brakes will probably be fine. They were on Big Bad running sub 140s at road atlanta in July.

So should I start with a 911 tub or 930 tub? Should I start with a tub at all? If I'm going to replace many of the body panels, seats, door panels, etc., seems kinda crazy to start with a nice car and start pulling stuff off and selling it on EBay (I don't have the time to mess around with that anyway).

I'll probably use Recaro SRDs (nice street/track mix) and a DAS rollbar. I don't need huge torsions, but will probably get some nice thicker sways (especially in the rear as the stock 930 has a passionate love affair with understeer).

What do you guys think? What would you build?

-dc

Geoffrey

Derick,

What you describe sounds a lot like what I did with my car. It is still stock body with the exception of a fiberglass front valence so I could install a center mounted cooler for proper cooling. The suspension is still torsion bars with good SRP sway bars and revalved shocks. Brakes are big reds which were necessary with the high speeds the car now carries. BTW, with stock style suspension, you will never get more than about -1.5 degrees of negative camber in the front unless you purchase upper plates.

The G50/50 5spd is a better gearbox than the 930 4spd and is stronger. Well worth the extra money. I even put a short gearset in mine and it really wakes up the car.

The problem with all the power you are looking for is that it really stresses the stock style suspension. I run the largest torsion bars available just to keep it from bottoming under acceleration. Although my engine is capable of over 650hp, I have it tuned to about 550hp @ 7bar of boost which seems about the most for the current chassis/suspension setup.

With the exception of the weight and fiberglass panels, you've described my car.

m42racer

Derick,

You have describe the car I am building at present also.Not sure of the weight yet as it is still unfinished, but the car is been put a major diet. It is however having some additions which may add to the weight not remove it. I have had 2 Oil Coolers added up front, all new Suspension both ends with the Brakes by Bembo race units. They are lighter than the stock Red types. The Gerabox is a special six speed, so the Torsions had to go at the rear. The Oil Tank is in the front with the fuel tank. It all started with 88 turbo. A major part of this work is a very special AC system which is going to be used to cool the Intake charge. Making all of the AC support system has been a very big job. Lots of weight here unfortunately. If I can I will have some pics posted tomorrow, or I will email them to you. BTW, 50K won't touch the car you are trying to build. I agree with that. Seems everytime I do these projects my bubble bursts very early on. Its only money. you can't take it with you, so spend it while you can.

Earlierapex

I knew I'd find you guys on rennlist. Thank you very much for the advice.

So, with the torsions I'm limited to 500 (maybe 550hp)? That's fine, I'll just focus more on the weight than HP (more fun at the track anyway).

I've had 2 930s (one of which was built by imagine) with 4spds, and that trans doesn't bother me that much. Also, I'm not interested in top speed, so I could just have the 4spd geared for 160 or so and it should be great for the track. M42, i take it a lot of the expense was the coilovers in the rear along with the "special" six speed?

I know you jump up a lot in expense in a couple of places:
1) going to coilovers and
2) going to better intake and EFI

So, should I take a stock 930 car and build down (remove stuff) or a stock 930 or 911 shell and build up?

Thank you so much, great to hear from you guys.

-dc

BJJones

I would suggest starting with a tub and building it up, I have spent an age removing all the parts that I did not want and then having to get rid of them somehow. I havent got much of the car left that I started with, basicaly the motor, the Tranny, and the wiring.

Also if you buy a tub you can see exactly what you are buying, you don't end up with nightmares hidden under trim parts and body panels. Another story..................

As far as budget I am into my car for about £30000 so far and that was starting with a cheap car that needed engine and tranny re-build. I have yet to add the cost of those re-bulids to the above figure. I am only re-building the motor to standard spec.

Other than that I don't think I have too much more to spend (who am I kidding) I have gone the lighweight route:

Chassis

Front and rear torsion bars removed, replaced with RSR adjustable coilover setup, all bushes replaced, monoball top mounts, adjustable RSR spring plates. Standard 3.3L brakes with braided hoses fronts are fully floating discs from 79 model. 18" Turbo 2 split rims with pilot sports. Front strut brace.

Interior

Interior removed and replaced with RS recaro's, lightweight carpets, plexi glass side windows, no rear seats, RS door panels, rear cage. All heating removed. Sued momo wheel. (original electric seats weighed a ton, I struggled to get them out alone)

I recon I have sold about £3000 worth of parts from the original car, so I have got about 10% of my investment back.

I would love to get some lighweight panles, carbon wings, doors, bonnet etc but that will be a project for the future.

Geoffrey

I'd be a little patient and look around for a car that has a lot of what you want. I see them all the time on ebay, panarama, here on the Rennlist classifieds.

Let me expand on my comment about the 550hp and limited suspension. I have found that the using the stock suspension, with all the rubber, the front in paticular moves around quite a bit. Your camber changes in the front as the top of the struts move toward the inside of the car.

550hp is also a manageable power level. I have run more, but lap times didn't really come down. It only helped in the full throttle straight line parts of the track which in reality isn't that much. It also made the car feel loose on full power out of a corner where the 550hp still feels hooked. If you look closely at my avitar you can see how much the car is squatting and that is with the largest torsion bars you can buy and that isn't even full power.

Wet1

Question for you guys...

Years ago I installed a G50 trans from a 964 in my 930 (I changed the nose cone/cover and replaced the shift rod), but in order for me to fit this trans I had to notch my 930 torsion bar tube in the center (removed about 1") and switched to coil overs. I then welded/braced up the torsion bar tube to bring it back up to the level of ridgity that the tube had originally. My question to you guys is when you change over to rear coil overs do you remove any of this heavy torsion bar tube other than make a small notch for the G50 trans?

Geoffrey

You can take about 1" off the G50 trans, sorten the main shaft and it will fit within the existing tub. My car is an 89 so it already has provisions for the G50.

m42racer

Derick,

I emailed you some photo's of my new project. Did you get them? They show the 6 speed G/B, Brakes, Engine, etc. When you start, its hard to stop.

Earlierapex

Simon,
Thank you very much for the pictures. The detail level of your car is nothing short of astounding.

Couple of quick questions if you don't mind: which intake is that? which brembo brakes (I haven't seen those before)?

Thank you again.

-dc

m42racer

Derick,

Like that. As I said, when you start, it's hard to stop. As for the Brake parts, they are all race parts. The Intake system is PD. The engine is only a 3.2L. Its getting close to finishing. Its all the small details that take the time.

For any of you others who may be interested this, if I can figure out how to post the pics, I will. If I cannot, maybe Derick could.

Wet1

Feel free to email me your pictures and I will happily post them for you.
fastcat@sbcglobal.net