gaijin

It was not the last "50" as suggested by many. Both Keith and Sloane are spot-on. They both are familiar with it. We've driven and displayed our cars at various events. I know that Keith has the Ferry Porsche certificate and Sloane's has to have the lowest verifiable mileage recorded on a street driven 930 I have ever seen.

Mine was reportedly delivered by Porsche AG to Holbert's as part of the last five 930 to physically shipped to the US as mentioned in Bob Chapman's Excellence article. The question of the last 50 cars built, shipped, sold, whatever will never have an authenticated resolution. These cars cannot command the prices most of the owners expect or dream of. They are just production 1979 Porsche 911 Turbos. Their prices will be what the market dictates for condition, mileage, originality of 35 plus year old cars, etc. just like any other car out there.

Maybe by attrition in let's say 50 plus years or so, they might command more. No, they are not limited production cars. Porsche's business plans dictated that they stop production until they can figure out how to meet US EPA/DOT laws enacted for the beginning with the model year 1980 automobiles. And still keep the performance edge engineered into the model.

Also remember that this whole 930 experiment on Porsche's part was about homologation for Group V FIA in the mid-70's. Consumers liked what they saw at the Paris Auto Show and Porsche then also realized lucrative business to be had by selling them as straight-out street cars complete with power windows, sun roofs, a/c and AM/FM/Cassette players.

If you own one, enjoy it; take care of it and when the time comes if you want, pass it on to the next owner who will do the same. If you don't and would like one; they are out there. Prices again will vary according to condition, originality, etc.

Keep the revs up and never lift!

idart930

kas930,

I believe the number on your door is the production number if Porsche followed the same practice on 930’s as they did 911’s. If true, there should also be a number under the dash in wax pencil and also stamped under the knee pad by the ashtray. Is your knee pad already removed? If so, can you see if there’s a number present? There's a good thread on this topic for a 911 S on the 356 Registry at:

http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/6/28677.html

Last930

Idart - I sent you a direct email with some info I scanned - I wasn't able to post it to this thread. Let me know if it came through.

idart930

Here’s Dave’s documentation for 9309801200. No question that his car was the last ’79 930 chassis number as confirmed by Porsche AG. Interesting that by Jan 1990, Porsche AG had no knowledge of the fact that Ferry Porsche had signed fifty certificates for these cars.

I still think it will be interesting to unravel the mystery of the late transmission, engine # and VIN decal date for kas930's, 1156.

Dave, I noticed the added “7” by your transmission number on the paperwork from Porsche. The U.S. Porsche COAs seem to drop off the first “7” even though they are stamped on our ’79 930’s transaxle. Just to confirm, is your VIN decal dated 11/79?

Here’s a summary of the known last 50 '79 930 chassis numbers with transmission, engine #’s and VIN decal dates:

9309801055
Engine: 6891366 (California)
Transmission: 7791842
VIN decal: 11/79

9309801156
Engine Number: 6890836 (49-state)
Transmission: 7792055
VIN decal: 12/79

9309801164
Engine: 6890807 (49-state)
Transmission: 7791977
VIN decal: 11/79

9309801200
Engine: 6890814 (49-state)
Transmission: 772019
VIN decal: 11/79

kas930

[QUOTE=idart930;10137944]

kas930,

I believe the number on your door is the production number if Porsche followed the same practice on 930’s as they did 911’s. If true, there should also be a number under the dash in wax pencil and also stamped under the knee pad by the ashtray. Is your knee pad already removed? If so, can you see if there’s a number present? There's a good thread on this topic for a 911 S on the 356 Registry at:

http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/6/28677.html[/QUO

Idart,
At the moment my car is completely together and I don't have any previous pics of that area. I seem to recall that potentially there is something under the passenger side wooden panel, but positive. I've never had the knee pads off before but will be removing them when I tear the car down for re-paint (which will happen very soon).
Thanks
Keith

idart930

gaijin,

I can’t tell if your negative vibes are for 930’s in general or just the last 50 ’79 930’s?

I’m not sure why you have just focused on price and market value. What high prices do owners dream of? How many examples of the last 50 have you seen where the owners demanded high prices? Most of the last 50 ‘79’s sold in the past few years were molested or abused and sold for a song and even WPOZZZ’s 1176, in perfect condition, only sold for $31K a short time ago. For me, it’s not about the market value, but the history of the 930.

For many years 930’s have been panned by the Porsche elite. All we had was the constant negative drum beat like the Excellence Magazine Price Guide that told us that 930’s were not rare or collectible cars. This perception has started to change but still meets resistance from many as echoed in your comment: “Maybe by attrition in let's say 50 plus years or so, they might command more. No, they are not limited production cars.”

It might be true that the late Al Holbert had a 930 delivered with the last ’79 production number/date (but not chassis number as that belongs to Dave’s, #1200) but as they say in the great state of Missouri, “Show Me”.

idart930

I’ve been looking into the topic of the production numbers verses VIN numbers for 930's and there’s a reasonable explanation as to why 1156 has a later VIN date and transaxle/engine #’s to my car, #1164 and Dave’s #1200.

This topic has been researched in painstaking detail for the 2.7 RS and other vintage 911’s and the “production number” was the “tub number” which was not the same or necessarily in sequence to the chassis # or VIN. Porsche is very protective of the production/tub numbers due to VIN tampering and other nefarious activities as they have been able to detect fraudulent 2.7 RS builds by comparing the hidden production/tub #’s to the VIN.

In the case of 930’s, I believe there has been very little researched on this topic. 930 production/tub numbers may have appeared on the side doors (in the case of 1156) and underneath the knee pad by the radio and probably in other hidden locations.

The bottom line is that it may be impossible (as gaijin suggested in his post) to find out the last production/tub # for any model year 930. Of course this also true for any other 1970's/1980's Porsche production car (911 S, 911 SC, 924, 928, 944, etc.) since this information is closely held by Porsche. Take the 911 S for example, it would be impossible for someone to state that they have the last U.S. 911 S that rolled off the assembly line but could only state that they have the last U.S. 911 S VIN/chassis number.

To state that Porsche intentionally swapped the production numbers on the last 79 930’s is pure speculation and is counter to the Porsche documents that Dave provided for his 930. However, if it turns out that 1156 is the only VIN decal with a 12/79 production date, it would indicate that it was the last ’79 930 production/tub number and would be a unique data point for the '79 930 model year.

idart930

One more of the last 50, ’79 Porsche 930 chassis number 9309801196 in the May/June 1980 issue of Gmund magazine - anthracite grey with black interior.



Summary:

Chassis #, exterior color/interior color
11xx, black metallic/light red (1984 Robb Report)
1155, beige/brown
1156, PTS yellow/cork
1163, guards red/black
1164, silver metallic/two-tone light red/black
1166, silver metallic/black
1170, Talbot yellow/black
1172, black/tan
1173, anniversary color
1175, guards red/tan
1176, guards red/tan
1177, guards red/black
1185, black/black
1189, interior black
1194, black/tan
1195, black metallic/black
1196, anthracite grey/black
1200, charcoal grey metallic/two-tone brown/tan

idart930

The January/February 1980 issue of Gmünd included a story on the retirement of the Porsche 930. It used a lot of the same text from the January 1980, Porsche + Audi Englewood Cliffs, NJ press release, “Porsche Turbo Retires Undefeated”.

"In our first issue, we did a salon feature on the Porsche 930 Turbo, that legendary street “racer” and now Porsche + Audi has informed us that the 50 930 Turbos for the United States will be delivered by Porsche + Audi dealers this month.

Known as the fastest street-legal car sold in America with a demonstrated top speed of 165 mph, the already legendary model will no longer be available here after the last of the 1979s arrive from Germany. Factory spokesman in West Germany have said that although the high-horsepower “flat-six” engine is capable of meeting current U.S. exhaust emission regulations, modifications to the emission control system and recertification required for the coming model year would be impractical for the limited-production sports car.

A derivative of the 911, it was Introduced in 1976 as the Turbo Carrera and renamed simply “the Turbo” in 1978, U.S. production of the high-performance luxury Porsche has averaged about 600 cars a year.

Porsche engineers have perfected modern automotive turbo-charging, and the “street-Turbo” uses a system which many other manufacturers are now turning to in an effort to create more powerful and flexible small-displacement engines. With fuel economy far-surpassing other “exotics” in its class, the 3.3-litre fuel-injected engine produces 253 horsepower – and 0 to 60 mph times of less than five seconds.

If you are lucky enough to get one of the last 50 Turbos you will also receive a dash plaque and a certificate signed by Dr. Porsche.

We are sorry to see such a beast no longer being able to come to the U.S. Hopefully a new “super” street car will ultimately be derived from the 924 and 928."

idart930

Porsche 930 last fifty Turbo dash plaque without a chassis number filled in. It would be interesting to find out what company manufactured these in 1979.

Last930

That's probably the one missing from my car.....Where did you find that?

idart930

I found that image on an older laptop computer and I believe it was from an auction, perhaps eBay. I like the image as it shows the plaque's original finish (prior to the patina on mine).

Your plaque should have had the chassis number filled-in although a blank plate would be nice as you could stamp-in any number you like. If there’s one, perhaps there are more out there.

Last930

That would be pretty nice to have - let me know if you ever see one up for sale!

Also, on behalf of all the fans of the older 930's I would like to thank you for all the work and time you have put in documenting and discussing these cars - we all appreciate it!

idart930

My pleasure Dave…I’m learning something new about ‘78/79 930’s all the time and today is no exception…

I purchased a spare U.S. 1979 Owner’s manual so I could take the original out of the glove box for safe keeping while having another with the car for the fuse number chart, etc. I received the ’79 manual and something looked off. First, it is dated 12/79 whereas the manual that came with my car has a 5/78 date. Then, lo and behold on page 23 of the 12/79 manual, the speedometer diagram is for an 85mph version instead of the 150mph in the 5/78 manual. Additionally, on page 38, the 12/79 manual has deleted the photograph of the snorkel headlight washer.

The 12/79 manual looks like it came from the factory and has the same U.S. Order Number of the 5/78 manual: W 42-609-174-1. Why would Porsche produce this manual if the last U.S. ’79 930’s were made in Nov/Dec ’79?

Dave/kas930 (or anyone else with a late-79 930), can you check the dates on your owner’s manual?

Last930

My manual is. 12/79 version.