rubenhak

Hi Everybody,

I've got back from the Porsche dealership, purchased the 2013 911 C2S, paid all cash, did not get the car, felt like being tricked, got yelled by the sales manager and overall had the worst customer experience every. I would appreciate an unbiased external feedback from you guys. Will list the events chronologically. If this catches your attention continue reading.

• Vehicle was listed on sale by Sonnen Porsche on Oct 23, 2016. No pictures of the car neither in cars.com nor at the dealer web site.
• Last Saturday, on Oct 5th i decided to go and take a look to the car. The dealership is 50 miles away from my place, so I was ready to buy the car the same day. Once I was there I was told that the car is in the shop for preparation and smog check, etc.. etc..
• I made an appointment for next Saturday - Oct 12th in the morning to check out the car. That should have given them enough time to finish all the job they were doing on the car for last two weeks. They explained the delay because of the business of the service department. They were also very persistent for me to come back and see the car much earlier, and every moment kept telling me that there is a "high interest" in the car. Not even sure why would there be so much interest in the car that does not have pictures and is not available.
• On Thursday got a call from the sales person telling that the car is in the dealership and I'm welcome to come. I was busy and told that I will visit them on Saturday as per prior appointment made. Again, was reminded about "high interest".
• On Friday got a reminder voice message regarding the appointment. Tried to return the call and left a voice message confirming the appointment.
• Same Friday I noticed pictures of the car in the internet with price reduced $1k.
• Today, while I was on the way to the dealership got a call from the sales person telling me that there is someone is interested and is going to "buy" the car. I told him that he should wait for me to arrive in 10 minutes away and will be there as we agreed per our appointment. This immediately raised a yellow flag for me since they seem to be playing games to introduce anxiety and quickly buy the car.
• I arrived at the dealership and after greeting the sales person asked the purpose of the call. He started to explain that there is someone, blah blah. I reminded that I made the appointment a week ago for this car, and that I'm driving 50 miles away and that he should not call and warn me by telling "someone is buying" the car 10 minutes before the appointment. And the "buyer" was not even there in the dealership.
• Test drove the car. The car was wonderful. I wanted to have the PSE as well, but the absence is not a show stopper.
• The car has Passport 9500ci radar installed. The updated listingon the dealer web site and the cars.com has two pictures of the radar installed. The radar kept beeping and talking during the test drive and the sales person told that it was installed by the previous person and they maybe would need to take it out and return the the previous owner. My friend asked how is that even possible for to return something to the previous owner for the car that was traded in to the dealership. The sales person was vague and told that he would need to check and let us know.
• We got back to the dealership. They gave me an out of the door quote with the original price - $81k. I told him that first of all price on the listing was $80k online. After answering some of their questions, where did i see that price, when did i see that price, and after some going back and forth to their manager they agreed to the internet price. Later they admitted that they reduced the price for 1 day on Friday.
• So the out of the door price came up to $88,339.30. They didnt even agree to make it even $88k, telling that they "have no room" and instead can give me something from the gift shop. All this negotiations took about 20 minutes and I told them that I'm ready to purchase the car and that I'm ready to buy cash. Overall I should have been an easy buyer, no finances, no trade ins, just one test drive, and agreed to buy the car for the price listed an evening before.
• The sales person told that the car will be ready about in an hour and a half to get it washed, detailed, and the gas filled in.
• Shortly later we were walked to the financial officers office. Signed the paperwork. Wrote the check and left the office.
• The moment we left the office the sales person told that they might not be able to give me the car right now since they still have to take out the radar. I was honestly shocked especially after writing the check and doing all the paperwork. He said that it will take about 3 hours and I can come back later to take the car. Me and my friend had some plans. They agreed to drive the 911 to my home tomorrow morning (Sunday).
• We left the dealership very disappointed. After three minutes on the way home I realized and we were tricked. I called the sales person asking to not to take the car to the shop and wait for me to come back in 3 minutes.
• I got back to the dealership and notices the other sales person trying to drive my 911 that I had already bought. I stopped him and asked to go and talk to their manager.
• The manager manager was outside at the lot and asked me what i wanted. I advised to come inside his office to talk. I told him that I had already purchased the car. The paperwork says "SOLD AS EQUIPPED" and that their listings also included the pictures of the radar.
• The manager started to YELL at me and my friend, saying that he will never give me that radar, that radar costs $4k and it has to be returned to the previous owner. Skipping the details this was completely disrespectful to the client that already purchased the car. I could agree to some compromise if he was calm and understanding. Instead he yell at us as if we were I dont even know what. He said that if I do not want to buy the car he can void the contract and sell it to someone else. I told him that I already purchased the car, and this car is already mine, and I have purchased it as is, and if they had to take out the radar they had to take it out before when the car was in the shop and do not advertise the car with the photos of the radar, also that the sales person should have confirmed that the radar has to come out before I had signed the financial paperwork, and not right after that. But the discussion with the manager was not constructive, he just kept yelling that he will not give us the radar.
• Then he just left his office in the middle of the talk. Asked the other sales person to take the car to the shop.
• Before we left I took his business card to use the name to write a complaint to Porsche USA.
• I checked online, and in reality that radar costs $1500 NEW at amazon. In ebay the new one is $1200. The used one is $900. To take it out it would cost $120 approximate dealership hourly rate * 3 hours = $540. Did not ever expect such attitue from any dealership, expecially one from Porsche for $540.
• Later at home I read the dealer paperwork, and looks like indeed, the car is mine and they cannot void the contract unless I want that. Also it says the car is sold as equipped. So I sent the photo of the contract with the terms there and told the sales person that I will be filing a complaint to the Porsche USA and take legal actions.
• A second later got a call from sales person. He tries the smooth rough surfaces by apologizing for the manager. I told that I have not problems with him, but his manager should not have behaved that way and his manager should apologize instead. He was worried about the legal actions and complain to Porsche, he tried to check what my intentions are. He also said that they can cancel the contract. I disagreed and told that the car is already mine and they cannot void it without my consent. I also told about the sales person about the price of the radar, and that it is miserable to spend man hours to dismantle the used radar, and then install that used radar into another Porsche that costs $900. Instead of taking it out that could have bought a used radar for $900. I might have agreed to some compromise to keep the radar, unless me and my friend were treated normally.
• Tomorrow morning, on Sunday, The both sales persons are going to drive to 911 to my house.

So that's the story. Very serious about complaining to Porsche USA. Not sure about legal actions, since it most probably will be a time consuming process. But might want to contact the GM of Porsche USA for this matter. That kind of manager should not be allowed to work with customers. That ruins the entire experience of spending nearly $90k cash for car purchase. I left the dealership completely angry. Never though I would leave the dealership without the car in that mood after purchasing it.

Again, I would very much appreciate some feedback on this.

Cheers,
Ruben

Buteo

I wouldn't want two dealership employees driving my car, knowing I have a grievance issue.

IMO, go get your car as the sale is signed. Or cancel if you feel the need. There are plenty of cars out there and tons of reputable dealers that would love to EARN your business.

rubenhak

The options are much more limited for a used car. I want a convertible C2S with many options.

What are the issues with the sales driving the car? This is a used car, and it had been driven for 25k miles and there were other folks driving and test driving the car. Can you elaborate more?

73911

Keep in mind that the dealership is a franchise. Porsche North America is corporate. They're already enemies. That's just the nature of any franchise/franchisor relationship.

Offering to pay cash is not a good thing for the dealership. They would much rather have you finance the car and then they get a kickback from the bank. By paying cash you cut into one of the most profitable items in the whole store.

The only thing you could have done differently was to walk out. The dealer had you on the line and he knew that you could be horsed around. Walking out is the only thing that a dealer understands.

Right now they have your money so there is no recourse for you. Just go enjoy the car and think of it as a lesson learned.

Richard Newton
Concours College

Drisump

Guess I'm too compliant. Since you posted, I will offer my two cents. When the salesman claimed the RD might have be removed for the previous owner I would've expected that this would be the case and operated as though that would be the state of the car's equipment, (without RD)regardless of what "the contract" stated or the timing of when the money actually changed hands. Seems to me that you understood that the detector was likely off the table unless you opened up negotiations on that topic. I'm no lawyer but personally, I'd like a return to quality "handshake" deals. I'm not condoning the dealerships handling of this deal but as soon as someone drags up the details of "the contract", images including RD installed (vs the salesmans info that the device was not part of the deal), timing of removal vs transferal of money, I have to say we have headed down the road to the BS that I personally, have had enough of. Sometimes when a deal goes south, it is many small actions /reactions that pile up. I'm sure she's a nice car.....enjoy her but you have started a relationship with the dealership that may never be right.....perhaps walking away may've been the prudent course of action.

Alan A

Walk.
You'll never be happy with the car. The buying experience will taint it forever. 991s aren't that rare, even optioned to the hilt.

eddielasvegas

I'm sorry to say but they spotted the fish in the water, cast the bait and reeled you in after you swallowed hook, line and sinker. You really had no chance as they quickly detemined walking (our only real power) was not an option since you showed such high interest in the car.

This is SOP at almost all dealerships and most salespeople would sell their mother for an extra dollar in profit. I would cancel the purchase if possible, but my guess is it's too late given the date.

Nothing tp lose by informing PCNA of your experience. Blast them on yelp and where ever else you can. Local PCA chapter?

Chalk it up to lesson learned and do not make the same mistake twice.

Good luck with you car.


Eddie

Trakrat

Odd experience. But I have to ask... if you are only 50 miles from the dealership.... why not ask for the keys and drive the car home... as is?

Rule #1... if you bought a used car after looking at it, and paid them cash... then immediately take possession of the car.
Once you sign the paperwork for the sale of the car, YOU are responsible for anything that happens to that car.

sugarwood

Thanks for reminding me why I have never bought a car at a dealership.

I would have walked at the first "high interest"
First thing I always say is, "If you try to sell me, I will walk. DO NOT try to sell me"

Getting nickled and dimed on a $90k deal is unacceptable.

Dealership is a bunch of amateurs.
You were given a chance to cancel the deal, and you should have.

Now, you paid, and they have your car.
This is like sending your food back after insulting the waiter.

At least they know you may play hardball, and not F with you.
Please post a photo once the car is in the driveway.

911Dave

If the car was advertised "as is" and the contract has language stating "as equipped", then I think any judge or jury would agree that you own the radar detector. What the salesperson speculated on during the test drive has exactly ZERO legal weight.

It's my understanding that they acquiesced and are providing you the car with the radar detector in it. By all means, complain to Porsche about the mistreatment by the manager, but that's as far as it goes, IMO. Anything more would only be venting. It really sucks that you have to be upset about the transaction when you should be excited about the new car and enjoying it instead.

I hate dealerships. I've had enough of them.

sugarwood

Tons of other ones to choose from.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...owToolbar=true

73911

It's never about the car you end up buying. It's really about how many cars you walk away from.

Richard

rubenhak

The car I was looking for was a 991.1 convertible, S or 4S model, years 2012-2014, non black/silver exterior, non black interior, chrono package. Once you apply those filters the list of cars would reduce to single digit.

Most of the time I would agree regarding the cash purchase, but this time it was much more economically beneficial for me to buy the car with cash. But that has to be by the end of the calendar year. And that's another requirement that limits my choices. I had a month and a half till the end of the year, and was not sure if would be able to find a similar one till than. That's the reason I didn't walk out in the first place.

But that' completely different question, cause after signing the documents the car should legally belong to me. My trouble was that I was not sure about my rights at the moment, and got tricked by the crooks at the dealership saying that the car does not yet belong to me and they can void the contract. Otherwise, I could have called the cops for illegal possession of my car without my consent.

They called me. car is here. running to check it out

Buteo

If this dealership is as bad as you say it is, I wouldn't want them joy riding in MY car. Just me though.

sccchiii

Just my honest feedback....

1) It sounds like despite many early indications it might be a bad experience you preceded anyways

2) if dealership told you that radar detector was to be removed before deal was consummated then why the big deal afterward? All of a sudden you're using legal contract language to change the terms they told you before you wrote check?

3) if you want to get them don't waste your time opening a case with PCNA, go harder at them if you feel you want to do that. PCNA gets many dealer complaints everyday and ultimately the dealer is one that chooses to fix the problem or not it is sent back to the dealer CSI person to respond but they can say anything to PCNA to close case back up. Go to attorney general or the state office that oversees dealership license and file a complaint. Not the be all end all but at least it will do more than PCNA.