bugeater

Here is the deal-I am a one year owner of a 87 911 cab-97k stock in good shape. I want to do drivers ed to see how much I like track events (I am betting a lot) but to participate will need minimum of $2000 in roll bar, seat to lower ride height(I am 6'4"), new belt, helmet, coupled with having to remove same mods for normal use(two small boys use back often.
Question 1) should I wait until I purchase my "next 911" or do the mods and sell roll bar etc eventually?
Question 2) my wrench suggested that one might rent a 911 to do a track event. anyone heard of this? particularly in the mid ohio area.
Thanks for enduring my dilemma.
Craig <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" /> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Thom Fitzpatrick

What group are you running the DE with? The ones I know of only require a helmet and stock seat belts. You would need a roll bar for most tracks for your cab, but I'm pricing my options there, $275 for the basic bar, plus $100 to add 2 cross-bars to use as harness hars (I have 5 points in my car already).

Why would you need the new seat? A cab has *way* more headroom than a normal 911! Run the event with the top down. As long as you keep the shiny side up, you won't have any problems.

Recaro SRD's are the current favorite of the street & track crowd, and you could use them full-time - no need to remove them after the event.

Leave the roll bar in and put the kids in the trunk!

Martin S.

Dougherty Automotive Systems in PA makes the DAS-sport roll bar for cabs. It is completely bolt in. The cost of the bar may approximate $1,000...it is excellent quality, I have one on my 97 Carrera. They are sold direst, or through Performance Products in Van Nuys, CA. If you have them install loops for your belts, you'll not need the H straps I talk about below.

For ride height, look for a 78 to 89 Porsche Sport seat. Perhaps PAR in Yonkers New York may have one for sale. With the Sport Seat, you can have an Upholstery Trim Spop cut out the center section of the seat and attatch velcro to the bottom. Then they make you a thin pad that goes over the springs. I had this done on my SC and it sorked wonders. Also note, when you install the 5 point harnesses, you will want H straps. These strapes connect the two (2) fore and aft belts and mount behind the seat. They keep the belts on your shoulder in the event of an impact. There, now you are all set. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Tim

Craig,

Before you drop alot of $ for a roll bar and such, just go to you first few DE's and see how you like it ( you will be hooked i'm sure!!!). Talk to some regulars, look around and see who is using what. I am a member of ther Metro NY chapter of the PCA, we usually have loaner helmets for first time drivers. Jusat go out and have some fun... you'll learn soon enough what you need as you skills increase....

good luck

Tim <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Bill Gregory

Craig,

Some PCA regions offer a "taste of the track" where you get a ride to see what it's like. Also, some regions have loaner helmets for first time participants. I believe OG Racing (www.ogracing.com) has a helmet rental program, too. Don't know why you need new belts to start out. Stock 3-way belts are fine for beginners. Really the only thing a cab needs is a rollbar, in our region all Porsche's need a fire extinguisher, and, again in our region and others, you have to pass the broomstick rule (see below).

You may be at odds with putting a rollbar in and having your boys ride in the back, especially if the rollbar has a welded cross support bar. Some companies make bars with removable cross bars.

If you're going to use your cab, you may be right that your height will require a new drivers seat, as many regions use a broomstick rule (broomstick between windshield frame and rollbar has to be above your helmet). You might be able to find a used racing seat that would lower the drivers seat even more - you'd probably want to swap it in/out with the regular seat.

You may also need a fire extinguisher, depending on the rules. You can clamp it to the rollbar, or with Porsche seats get a Brey-Krause adaptor. Spend the $125 on Halon, if you need to use it, it won't harm your aluminum engine.

Jaws911

Dear Bugeater -

Went thru a similar dilemma w/ my 86 cab, following a "novice" DE day w/ Metro PCA(no rollbar required, limit speed) at Pocono North. Once you do this, it's sort of a no-brainer- if you want to really (learn to) drive your car, you've got to track it. I love the way the cab looks, and wanted to keep it stock, so I drove down to Dougherty Porsche in Westchester PA (DAS systems, I believe they're on the web as well) 2 springs ago and had them install a removable roll bar using the existing seat belt brackets - no new holes!
They are very well thought of (see thread in racing section). Colin and his dad (can't remember his name) are standup guys - they will also mail it to you and somebody down there can can do the first installation - (slight mods of the carpet , etc. tok about 2 hours) After that, it's a pretty easy in & out - takes me about 90 minutes, and I imagine I'll get faster I've only done it once a season for 2 years. Now I know it was absolutely worth the money - though I did vacillate about it both before and after. It's really been the only mod I needed to make - I borrowd a bike buddies extra helmet - you'll find some there i think.
Regarding you height, I have only rarely been able to run w/ the top down - not sure why, the rules have been vague and variable -

fred

PS - bad news - Perhaps you will find, as I did, that the cab is the 'poofy' little brother of the track community, as the chassis is not stiff enough to handle mucho HP or hard cornering

<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> good news -all the instucotrs will want to run w/ the top down if they can, and if it's sunny on the way home, you'll be having much more fun!

KOAN

Bugeater,
If I were you, I'd try to find a track car to rent before I spent a lot of money and time preparing your Cab for the track. Fred Baker (Cleveland) used to rent a 944 for track events, and you might try calling Eric Steinel (303-425-8582) in Twinsburg, OH, near Cleveland, for a lead on a rental. I'll bet you will love driving on the track, as it is one of the most addictive activities you can imagine. I agree with previous posters that the DAS roll bar is the way to go, if you decide to take the plunge. The fit and finish are worth the extra cost. Another option is to go to the Mid-Ohio School, which is pretty close to where you live. You will get a car to drive (not a P-car, but a car that will exceed your ability), good instruction, a helmet to wear, and some time on one of the best tracks in the US. This may be the best way to spend your initial money, because you'll know if you want to continue to spend $$$ in this endeavor, and you'll start out with a good knowledge base. Lots of options, all fun! Good luck <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Chris Bennet

My region (NCR) and other regions I have driven with, requires the top to be up on open cars or arm restaints to be used.

bugeater

Thanks to all for the replys. First the facts- I definately need a bar(it seems the DAS is the way to go there) to run at mid-ohio event on 4/20, I will not pass the broomstick test without a lower seat. Right now I am leaning toward trying to find a rental/borrowed car or doing the "school at mid ohio" if not extremely expensive first, then decide on whether to mod the cab or trade to a more appropriate track car.
Any further input appreciated <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Chris Martin

I did the high performance drivers clinic at Summit Point last year with the Potomac and Chesapeake regions, highly recommended. If you are not familiar, we had some class room, skid pad, cone drills on the track and then some track time. Since it was not all out DE the rules were a little informal, but safe! I recommend signing up for this event, it gave me a great taste for DE, and I learned a lot about my car too! They even had loaner helmets so there really was nothing to it.

Chris

nplenzick

I,ve been doing DE events for 15 years and have gone from street car, to track car, to club racing car, now back to a street car again. If you enjoy your cab why get rid of it? Even if you like DE events how many would you or could you afford to do? I'm happy to do four or five a year, I wouldn't want to get rid of my 84 targa just so I could a little bit faster in a coupe. You will have plenty to learn in your cab and just think on the way home from a DE event on a early summer evening you could put the top down and have almost as much fun on the ride home. Get the bar from Dougerty, do what ever you have to do to the seat and go out and have some fun. If you don't like it they will be easy items to sell. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Tom

If you need a new seat consider that Porsche standard and sport seats tend to cause problems for the shoulder belts by tending to pull them off your shoulders. The only real solution is a seat with holes for the belt in them. Aftermarket racing seats can range from rather inexpensive up. Check magazine ads for sources. you may need to do the same thing to both sides to accomodate both you and an instructor. Fortunately it isn't too hard to switch seats.

You will need at least a Snell SA95 helmet for track events.

DTFASTBEAR

Hey Craig,

I just had my '86 cab on the track for the first time this past weekend. What a blast! You will definitely get addicted.

I've got a couple things to say:

First, I have the DAS bar from Dougherty in my car. I don't trust the rear mounts, although based on a previous thread I may be alone in this worry. The only thing holding the bar in at the rear are two (one per side) 8mm bolts that are in total shear in the event of a rollover. I had some fabrication/welding done in my car to beef up the rear mounts. Many others on this list seem to trust the "stock" DAS set-up, though, so make your own informed decision there. The bar is SUPER high quality and fits wonderfully. You'l be able to take it out and reinstall it in 90 minutes no problem.

Regarding the seat height - you might have more options than you think, depending on what you are worried about. The rules in my PCA region state that the bar must be 2" above your helmet OR the bar must be as high as it can be with the top up in a cab. The DAS bar, once covered in the required padding, will be exactly as high as it can be with the roof up. So, even if your head is above the bar a bit, you might still be within the rules. However, you must again, make a decision on how safe you want to be, because being taller than your rollbar is less than ideal for obvious reasons.

Have fun and let us know what you decide to do!

Dean