BlueGill

Good morning, gentlemen. I am presently doing a little research in preparation for the purchase of a mid-1970's 911. I just love the classic look of the mid-70's Porsche 911. We haven't had a Porsche in the family since Dad's mid-60's 356 that he brought back from Germany (and no, he didn't keep stored in mint condition for his only son!).

I have done a bit of research on this excellent website, and I understand the 2.7 engine's head case stud pull issue, as well as the negative effects of the hotter-running thermal reactor equipped engines. I've also seen some references to problematic valve guide materials. There are two relatively fresh threads on this forum regarding the 2.7 that I have read.

Question 1: It sounds like a 1974 model year will not have all the smog equipment that serves as a detriment to the 1975-1977 model years. Is this indeed a fact, and is it reason enough to search for a '74 over later years?

Question 2: I suppose that any 2.7 I can find will either have the stud issue already resolved, or I will have to assume it's an issue waiting to bite me if the engine is in original condition. I understand that dropping in another (used) engine (3.0, 3.2, etc) will cost about $6k+, but what should I budget for a 2.7 "fix-up", meaning resolve the stud issue? It sounds like the 2.7 is a fine engine, once the quirks are taken care of.

Question 3: Can anyone offer any more insight into the poor valve guide material issue? Is this something that a proper PPI will discover?

Question 4: I am mechanically inclined, but certainly not a trained automotive technician. I do all my own work on my present vehicle, a Land Rover Discovery modified for heavy offroad use, and I'm not at all afraid to "read the directions" (the manuals) and do it myself. Is a mid-70's 2.7 911 a vehicle that I can reasonably expect to maintain in my own garage? (by the way, it was a Rover owner who referred me to this site).

Thank you all for the advice!
-Bill Gill

P.S. this weekend, I will be searching for Randy Leffingwell's 911 Buyers Guide, as one of this site's members advised on another thread.

jim912928

Get a set of the factory workshop manuals and have at it! I'm not a mechanic by profession but I have totally rebuilt a few porsche engines using the factory manuals and other aids. Easy engines to work on! Good luck!

HarryD

Bill,

It is my understanding that the '74s did not have quite the issue of stud pulling as the later ones with thermal reactors so you would be expected to have a less stressed case.

Unless you have documented proof of a properly done replacement of the head studs (including the use of time serts), I would include an assumption that you will need to replace head studs. I would guess that costs are on the order of $5,000 to 10,000 to replace the studs (the range is due to the level of machine work required and how much other engine renewal may need to be done while you have the engine apart).

The current valve guide materials wear much better than the older materials used. If you have the engine apart, you most likely will have the heads renewed and new guides installed. A PPI may reveal worn guides as they are often evidenced by smoke from the exhaust during decelleration. How much, how obvious, depends on the degree of wear.

If you able to read, willing to be careful and have the willingness, I think you should be okwith DIY rebuild. Better, is to have a buddy who has done it before to help you out. Join PCA, there will be plenty of folks to help you out. Also, the Pelican Parts BBoard has numerous folks who BTDT.

One question: you are looking at the 2.7 L cars but not the earlier, "long nose" ones. I am biased, but the 1973 and earlier ones have, in my mind, a beautiful purity about them. Have you considered one of these? Unless you go with a 1976 or later, the rust issues are pretty much the same due to the lack of, or limited, galvanization of the car body.

Good luck!

BlueGill

Thank you very much for your feedback. After reading a bit more on this site, I'm thinking that a 2.7 in need of work may not be worth the effort. Perhaps a 3.0 swap is a better bet, but I'd really like to maintain some modicum of authenticity (no offense whatsoever intended to those who swap different years chassis, engine, body, etc).

Also, a '68-'73 era model would be nice too, but I haven't seen many advertised in my area. That's the pre-accordian bumper model, correct? (please bear with me, I'm new at this) What '68-'73 years had the 2.4? 1973.5 is the only electronic fuel injection, correct? How does the 2.4 drive compared to a good 2.7 or 3.0? Sorry to be so full of questions....

-Bill

BlueGill

P.S. can you point me to good pics of '68-'73 MY's? Thanks!

HarryD

Hey no problem. We were all new at one time

All said and done, a swap or transplant may cost about the same. Plus with a swap, due to lack of "pedigree" you could be rebuilding 2-3 years later anyway.

It took me 12 months to find my 1973. Be patient.

Nostatic at the Pelican BBS, posted a brief summary. See it here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...history+brief.

911's made up to and including 1968 have a shorter wheelbase than the later models. Due to their age and quirky handling issues, many folks stay away from them but they are fun to drive.

The pre-accordion models include those cars up to 1973. The accordions appeared in 1974 models.

The 2.4 liter engine was introduced in 1972. My car is the first of the CIS (bosch k-jetronic) fuel injection. Don't let the "-tronic" part of the name fool you. It is actually a form of mechanical injection but did not require a special injection pump to meter the fuel.

My 2.4L is a bit slow (only 140 horseyes) when compared to later models or the same year E and T models but it seems to scoot ok.

Of you want to see some poictures, the link at the top of the rennlist page to Porsche's 40th Anniversay web site will show you pictures, advertisements. movies etc. about all the models.

Keep us posted.

JonSeigel

If you love the look of the *mid* 70s 911s (ie. post '73), why don't you get an SC? They look the same as '74-'77, have one of the most bomb-proof engines Porsche has ever made, and you don't have to worry about 2.7 problems or swapping engines.

BlueGill

Good point, Jon, but my main considerations are 1) price, and 2) I want something to work on! This will be a third car for just me (one driver) and I expect to have it in various states of dissassembly for continued periods of time. I'm also very patient - this is something I want to do in 2004.

So a '78-'83 is really that much more reliable, eh? I may have to look into that, as prices aren't much different. They do look great (as they all do), but there's just something about the 70's style (I'm sure Lamont would agree).

geo.aigel

If you can, get Randy Leffingwell's book: 911 buyers guide. It is an excellent resource for someone in your shoes. Most of my buying decision was derived from the book. It summarizes each year's pro's and cons.

George

RoninLB

there are a bunch of 2.7 cars around that have been PROPERLY rebuilt.. probably it'll be the best bang for your buck.. I'd rather have a real good low milage 2.7 than a 3.0 with 150k miles on it for the same price.. I would call some re-builders and see what's happening. like call Competition Engineering and say to Walt.. "Hey Walt, is any of your 2.7's for sale".. guys like Walt sometimes get first notice that a customer is selling.....Ron

callipygian 911

if you don't mind doing your own work, i'd go for a high-milage sc or better yet a 3.2 and rebuild that puppy. the motronic 3.2 guys are super-quick stock, and the engines are neigh bulletproof (read: often go past 300K miles easy before a rebuild is needed). i'd just as soon avoid the 2.7s personally, not worth the headache. here is an informative faq if you haven't found it yet:
http://www.rennlist.org/FAQ/
you should be able to score a high-milage 3.2L for less than 10K.
as far as the aesthetics are concerned, the body styling is virtually identical from 1974 through to 1990. one thing to keep in mind if you get an old guy, the 901 trannies used up until 1972 have an extremely awkward gear placement that takes some getting used to. first gear is towards the rear of the car.
good luck!

snakepitt1

1973 911's are pure sports cars. Nearly zero electronics, no power steering, decent brakes, great handling, smog controls were still a year off. The fun had not yet started to be regulated by certain Nader types. Can you tell I own a 1973?

Good luck with your search,

Scott Harris
1973 911T Targa 2.4L MFI

Jim Richards

geo.aigel

There is one rule in 911 buying: Get the best car your money can buy. Initial expense will outweigh everything down the line. You will get enough wrenching opportunity on the peripherals (suspension, sunroof, upgrades, weatherstripping, window seals, upholstery etc.), you want to keep away from the drivetrain if you can. Not because it ain't fun, but even if you do things yourself, a rebuild for example can run 4k in a heartbeat.

Good Luck in your search. Be patient!

George

HarryD

Here's some shots of my '73.

http://members.rennlist.com/harryd