Removal of Right Turn signal for Oil Cooling
08-08-2003, 01:27 AM
#1
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Removal of Right Turn signal for Oil Cooling
I'm considering removing the right turn signal when on the track with DE to increase air cooling to my 28 tube oil cooler. How difficult is it to remove, and then re-install before leaving the track each day. Thanks in advance! (And no - I'm not interested in adding the urban-legendized "Cool Collar" *G*)
08-08-2003, 01:55 AM
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You have an aftermarket cooler and still running too hot?
I would rather do something permanent. I have seen articles about putting a large cutout notch on the bottom side of the bumper where it is not visible or putting an air pickup scoop.
Here some info on how to remove the side marker (is that what you want to do for the track day) and installing a scoop in its place:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti..._oil_scoop.htm
Cheers, George
I would rather do something permanent. I have seen articles about putting a large cutout notch on the bottom side of the bumper where it is not visible or putting an air pickup scoop.
Here some info on how to remove the side marker (is that what you want to do for the track day) and installing a scoop in its place:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti..._oil_scoop.htm
Cheers, George
08-08-2003, 09:42 AM
#3
John,
I installed a Oil Cooler Scoop in my '84 Carrera last year. The tech article that George refers to is OK, but does not prepare you for how hard it is to get at the nuts holding the side marker light assembly in the bumper. Take your time and plan your steps...it can be done. Start to finish took me about 2 hours including several breaks to enjoy a malted amber beverage.
You are going to be working in very tight quarters...small hands and a good light source are assets for this job. I did not remove the horns as suggested in the article. I did remove the bellows at the end of the bumper. I also had an alum. support brace that is attached behind the RF bumper...that brace needs to be removed also. I used a 1/4" rachet with a flexible extension inorder to get the socket on the side marker housing nuts.
Once everything was apart and the marker light housing removed, I took some time to clean the area throughly. This included cleaning the grunge off my brass 28-tube front oil cooler until it gleemed like solid brass. Then I installed the cooler scoop, the alum. support brace and the bumper bellows.
The results are very noticable, especially on the track. My unscientific analysis says the scoop lowers my on-track oil temps by at least 10 degrees. On hot (90+) humid days here in the mid-Atlantic, I would briefly see 240 degrees oil temp (ouch!). Since I installed the scoop and cleaned my oil cooler, my oil temps on the track will occasionally get up to 220 or 225 max. Yes, I have used Mobil 1 for years in both my 911's.
I do not see much difference in oil temps just driving around town (175 to 195), and sitting still (idling) the scoop does nothing (duh!).
I suggest you get the scoop and install it yourself. You should be impressed with the results...especially on the track.
Bruce
I installed a Oil Cooler Scoop in my '84 Carrera last year. The tech article that George refers to is OK, but does not prepare you for how hard it is to get at the nuts holding the side marker light assembly in the bumper. Take your time and plan your steps...it can be done. Start to finish took me about 2 hours including several breaks to enjoy a malted amber beverage.
You are going to be working in very tight quarters...small hands and a good light source are assets for this job. I did not remove the horns as suggested in the article. I did remove the bellows at the end of the bumper. I also had an alum. support brace that is attached behind the RF bumper...that brace needs to be removed also. I used a 1/4" rachet with a flexible extension inorder to get the socket on the side marker housing nuts.
Once everything was apart and the marker light housing removed, I took some time to clean the area throughly. This included cleaning the grunge off my brass 28-tube front oil cooler until it gleemed like solid brass. Then I installed the cooler scoop, the alum. support brace and the bumper bellows.
The results are very noticable, especially on the track. My unscientific analysis says the scoop lowers my on-track oil temps by at least 10 degrees. On hot (90+) humid days here in the mid-Atlantic, I would briefly see 240 degrees oil temp (ouch!). Since I installed the scoop and cleaned my oil cooler, my oil temps on the track will occasionally get up to 220 or 225 max. Yes, I have used Mobil 1 for years in both my 911's.
I do not see much difference in oil temps just driving around town (175 to 195), and sitting still (idling) the scoop does nothing (duh!).
I suggest you get the scoop and install it yourself. You should be impressed with the results...especially on the track.
Bruce
08-16-2003, 01:47 PM
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Bruce, glad to hear you have had good results with the cooler scoop. The part about the alum brace behind the bumper not being in the tech artical is because not all porsches have it and there does'nt seem to be any ryme or reason as to what cars have it and what cars don't. The brace shows up on some parts lists and drawings but is in fact rare on the general population of cars between 74 & 89.
JMPRO
JMPRO
08-16-2003, 02:08 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
George, the 28 tube brass cooler I installed is not an aftermarket cooler, but from a Euro SC. And the only time the car runs too hot is at certain times of the year on the track. Highway & around town - no problems. Thank you for the link to the installation procedures.
Bruce, thank you for your extensive reply. I've seen the 'scoop' in a couple of catalogs, and have wondered how effective it would be. And since we're in relatively the same geographical area (I'm in suburban Phila), your success should work for me. I just missed the Performance Prods 20% sale, and since my last track event is the end of Sept, I'll probably put it in on over the winter.
Bruce, thank you for your extensive reply. I've seen the 'scoop' in a couple of catalogs, and have wondered how effective it would be. And since we're in relatively the same geographical area (I'm in suburban Phila), your success should work for me. I just missed the Performance Prods 20% sale, and since my last track event is the end of Sept, I'll probably put it in on over the winter.
08-18-2003, 09:44 AM
#6
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John,
I always remove my front turn signal light at track events. I have a Carrera cooler in my 80SC and notice a difference in temperatures. I also just ordered a cooler scoop and plan to run the scoop along with the removal of the front turn signal.
Getting the front turn signal out is not that bad after you have done it a couple times. It is held in with two small nylon lock nuts. I replaced mine regular none locking nuts so I can remove it without a socket. Just jack the front of your car up and you should be able to see the nuts. If you have large hands, it may be a tight squeeze. Unfortunalty you can not disconnect the lamo with out cutting the wire and fitting connectors. Before I cut the wire, I would just cover the plastic with low-tack tape to prevent scratches and zip tie the light assembly to my horns. I usually would just leave the light out the entire weekend, instead of replacing it and taking it out each morning and evening.
Look forward to lower temperatures.
BTW, Vertex has the scoop for $79.
Noel
I always remove my front turn signal light at track events. I have a Carrera cooler in my 80SC and notice a difference in temperatures. I also just ordered a cooler scoop and plan to run the scoop along with the removal of the front turn signal.
Getting the front turn signal out is not that bad after you have done it a couple times. It is held in with two small nylon lock nuts. I replaced mine regular none locking nuts so I can remove it without a socket. Just jack the front of your car up and you should be able to see the nuts. If you have large hands, it may be a tight squeeze. Unfortunalty you can not disconnect the lamo with out cutting the wire and fitting connectors. Before I cut the wire, I would just cover the plastic with low-tack tape to prevent scratches and zip tie the light assembly to my horns. I usually would just leave the light out the entire weekend, instead of replacing it and taking it out each morning and evening.
Look forward to lower temperatures.
BTW, Vertex has the scoop for $79.
Noel
08-19-2003, 12:01 AM
#7
I have the 28-row cooler. I removed my turnsignal (left the side marker light) at the last DE, and saw around 10 degrees drop on a hot DE day (second day). I left it off on the drive home, and I saw a very noticable drop +20 degrees on the trip home. Granted I got some rain during that drive, but removing the turnsignal does help.
I had connectors on the three wires so it was easy. Taking the light out is not terrible, but it's tight as Noel describes. I think it took me ten minutes, even with rusted studs and sticky nylock nuts. If I weren't backdating my car, I would make a modification tot he mounting so I can screw the housing on/off from the outside. I have a friend who used Euro side markers and expanded sheet metal for a permanant mod. Very nice looking too!
The other problems we have seems to be that the wheel well doesn't allow much air to flow out, unless air is forced in. I have seen headlight buckets cheese holed or cut open for headlight removal at DE's. That is probably a better move as you can really get a lot of air through there, and the headlight is just one screw. Adding a connector would be a piece of cake. If you are concerned about getting road debris up from the wheel, you can save the cut-out and make a simple flange to fill the hole with the cut-out for the street.
Cutting the bumper will help and a front mounted cooler would be best, with correct installation for air flow.
I don't want to go to the front cooler mount so I will modify my headlight bucket and add a vent on the fender behind the wheel, ala the old (now the retro ones) BMW.
I had connectors on the three wires so it was easy. Taking the light out is not terrible, but it's tight as Noel describes. I think it took me ten minutes, even with rusted studs and sticky nylock nuts. If I weren't backdating my car, I would make a modification tot he mounting so I can screw the housing on/off from the outside. I have a friend who used Euro side markers and expanded sheet metal for a permanant mod. Very nice looking too!
The other problems we have seems to be that the wheel well doesn't allow much air to flow out, unless air is forced in. I have seen headlight buckets cheese holed or cut open for headlight removal at DE's. That is probably a better move as you can really get a lot of air through there, and the headlight is just one screw. Adding a connector would be a piece of cake. If you are concerned about getting road debris up from the wheel, you can save the cut-out and make a simple flange to fill the hole with the cut-out for the street.
Cutting the bumper will help and a front mounted cooler would be best, with correct installation for air flow.
I don't want to go to the front cooler mount so I will modify my headlight bucket and add a vent on the fender behind the wheel, ala the old (now the retro ones) BMW.
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08-19-2003, 07:44 PM
#8
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I see the same question here - so I will repost the answer that I posted on the race/DE page --
"83SC 28 Row brass (heat sink) - I cut-out the back of the headlight bucket and removed the trim between the trim ring and the headlight, moved the turn signal to the parking light space and left the parking light off, cut-out the underside of the bumper (similar to 86 and later Carrera only about twice as large a cut-out, and sealed from the front to the cooler so that all air coming in must pass through the cooler.
The headlight modification may not be practical for you if you have newer style headlights. Originally I removed the headlight, but it does not seem to contribute to more cooling. Plently of air flows around the headlight. I even used the headlight washer to spray the cooler, but this proved only useful on the cool-down lap.
Removing the turn signal (or the parking light) is a real pain and requires removal from behind (nuts and lock washers), although you remove the lense from the front. It becomes even more of a pain when you box in that area -- you can't reach it from underneath without removing the lexan (or whatever else you use).
All the mods are in place in the pictures on the link in the signature block. Pretty much unobtrusive.
Unfortunately, the cooler is great for anything you will encounter on the road, it will never keep up with the track -- it needs fins like a true radiator cooler to be truly effective."
That last one is the biggest draw back the 28 row is not a cooler but is a more elaborate heat sink -- I have not sprung for the new cooler, but do know that many will match the prices offered by BAT for a MOCAL conversion which is much less pricey then the Carrera cooler. Ultimately the 28 row will not keep up on the track.
"83SC 28 Row brass (heat sink) - I cut-out the back of the headlight bucket and removed the trim between the trim ring and the headlight, moved the turn signal to the parking light space and left the parking light off, cut-out the underside of the bumper (similar to 86 and later Carrera only about twice as large a cut-out, and sealed from the front to the cooler so that all air coming in must pass through the cooler.
The headlight modification may not be practical for you if you have newer style headlights. Originally I removed the headlight, but it does not seem to contribute to more cooling. Plently of air flows around the headlight. I even used the headlight washer to spray the cooler, but this proved only useful on the cool-down lap.
Removing the turn signal (or the parking light) is a real pain and requires removal from behind (nuts and lock washers), although you remove the lense from the front. It becomes even more of a pain when you box in that area -- you can't reach it from underneath without removing the lexan (or whatever else you use).
All the mods are in place in the pictures on the link in the signature block. Pretty much unobtrusive.
Unfortunately, the cooler is great for anything you will encounter on the road, it will never keep up with the track -- it needs fins like a true radiator cooler to be truly effective."
That last one is the biggest draw back the 28 row is not a cooler but is a more elaborate heat sink -- I have not sprung for the new cooler, but do know that many will match the prices offered by BAT for a MOCAL conversion which is much less pricey then the Carrera cooler. Ultimately the 28 row will not keep up on the track.
08-22-2003, 12:48 AM
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I removed mine and re-wired to use the the parking/running lights as blinkers. I am going to make some kind of duct to put in there out of fiberglass unless I can find one that fits already. In over 100 degree temperatures in stop & go traffic I stayed right at 210 degrees. I usually run around 180-190 unless I am beating on it. This is in a 3.0 built out similarly to an early S Motor.
