gjm

I'm more normally found browsing the 928 forum, gasping in awe at the work done by so many of the guys over there. Not posted much (as is obvious) but I don't have a huge amount to contribute!

In the meantime, my landlord has dug his 911 out of wherever he'd hidden it for the last however many years, and offered me the opportunity to pay less rent in return for getting it back on the road. I did have a 911 many years ago - a 1969 911T in that 'unusual' shade of beige... It was solid and reliable, but nothing to look at.

I digress.

The car in question is (was) a 1973 2.7, but like so many has been fitted with a 3.0 engine (from around 1980, if what I have been told is correct). Sorry - I don't have the engine number to hand but will find it if it is important.

It's been sat somewhere that grass or straw (we live on a farm) can get in, and looks to have been a bed for some cats for some time.



And in the engine bay (it's worse than it looks in the picture!):



Problems abound.

An alarm has been fitted. I'd say installed, except there seem to be wires everywhere. I've been asked to remove it... Any tips? I have done some automotive wiring and fault-finding, but not tried removing an alarm before. The battery is disconnected - is it a hard work case of being methodical and tracing and removing the alarm components, or is it likely to be more involved?





Someone has done some DIY wiring at some point - I doubt a New Era twin headlight relay is original.



The heater blower has been removed by a gorilla. It's badly damaged.

The engine bay insulation is falling off the firewall. A fiddly and messy job, but it will have to be removed.





There's much else - the ignition leads could be original, for instance.



However, and the prime cause for the OTR status is the engine. The car sat for a considerable period of time, and then the oil was changed. Details are particularly vague as to the procedure used, but I'm told that when the engine was started, oil (literally) flooded on to the ground. And that is it. Nothing further has been done for at least two years - we've been here that long, and it was 'stored' when we got here.



(Shown with the blower motor removed.)

We towed the car to my garage (only 400m or so) where it's waited for me to get enthusiastic. I've noticed that a small amount of oil has fallen from the car to the garage floor since the relocation.

I know that there are two points to drain oil from, three if we include the oil filter. I'm wondering if they dropped the oil from either the bottom of the engine or the tank (but not both), swapped the filter (a Fram is fitted), and then refilled with oil. Bearing in mind we're in NZ, they'll have presumably used around 12 litres of oil (a quart being a little more than a litre) - potentially a massive overfill if the oil tank wasn't drained. Certainly the engine bay has had a lot of oil sprayed around it, and the airfilter was soaked in it - the air filter housing had a significant puddle of oil in it.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it is wise to part fill the engine with oil, turn the engine over, then complete the process. Could this be correct, or am I just getting confused with an automatic gearbox?

My plan is to drain the oil from the tank and engine, remove and clean the sump screen, clean up as much as possible, then try again. I'll check for any obvious locations that oil may have been coming from before refilling, of course.

To help, I have a copy of Wayne Dempsey's "101 Projects for your Porsche 911," but any advice will be very gratefully received.

Thanks,
Graham

rusnak

It sounds as if the objective is to find and fix the oil leaks, since it runs. Changing the oil gives you a reference starting point. Keep an eye on oil pressure at all times. If it pegs out, then shut the engine off. If the pressure gauge doesn't climb, then shut the engine off. Other than that, you'll loose track of how much oil is in the engine if it's "pouring out" and you'll probably need to let some oil leak out in order to find the source.

I'd clean everything thoroughly and start cranking the motor. Disable the fuel pump or ignition if the leak is that bad, then later start it up with caution as you progress further.

gjm

Thanks.

It did run - I've not tried to start it! The battery is out and on charge so it'll be ready when I am. Before I am, I suspect.

In a perfect world I'd pull the engine in order to clean properly - there is oil, fluff, oil, hair, oil, fur, powdered insulation material, oil, some stuff I don't want to think about... Did I mention oil? That's not an option though. 400lbs+ needs a stronger back than I have, and I don't have access to a crane or a lift at the moment.

I suspect it'll be one of 'those' jobs. Still, the sooner I start...

I'll check what oil is in the car now - it's been run for maybe two minutes since it was changed so should be OK, but if there is any doubt I'll drain it all. Pull the plugs, check the chambers, disable the fuel pump and ignition, turn the engine over and see what happens.

I've printed a copy of the Pelican Parts oil leak fixes article and if there are problems, start working through that. Of course, a lot of the common leaks come from places you can't get to without pulling the engine first, but I'll cross that bridge when (if) I get to it.

Amber Gramps

If it is belching oil then look at the before and after pictures I just posted a week ago. My guess is that your 3.0 has lost the same $3.00 Internal Thermostat O-ring.

https://rennlist.com/forums/11063689-post58.html

gjm

I'll have a look!

Thanks.

rusnak

The reason I think you might disable the engine is because you want to catch the leak just beginning. That's also why you want to clean as much old oil as you can. You'll notice that the oil pressure climbs really quickly after then engine is started. Doug is right: If the leak is coming from the topside, then you'll have to drop the engine to change the thermostat o-ring and pressure switch. If you do, then you might separate the engine and tranny and do all of the cleanup work related to the oil seal, TO bearing, pilot bearing, and TO fork.

JCP911S

First, is the body straight and un-rusted?

If so, the body shell alone is worth about $15-25k and the 3.0SC engine is worth about $3.5K on a good day.

Be careful and don't F-It-Up.

If your objective is to restore it, and keep it forever, then... well, ok.

If your objective is to maximize the value of the car, I'd contact a reliable broker.

The '73 was a 2.4L, not a 2.7L, but post the VIN.... who knows what you have... someone here will figure it out.

Amber Gramps

Russell, you are scarring the poor man. Besides, if he's in New Zealand, he actually has to RAISE the engine.

Any chance he could just remove the two rear motor mounts and pivot the engine down 3 to 4 inches with a floor jack? I don't have a CIS engine so I don't know how tight it is back there.

gjm

Don't tell my landlord what it might be worth! I might yet try to prise it from his hands...

The engine was originally a 2.7. 2.4s were fitted in 72-73, and the 2.7 between '72 & '77. (I think the original engine number was 6141267.) Chassis number shows it to be a G-series car from MY 1974, but it was first registered in the UK in 1973 before being exported to NZ in 1986.

There is some space at the back, but I'll check as much else as possible before I start pulling the engine around. Whether that be lifting or lowering...
To be fair, I had lost sight of the engine drop, as opposed to lift... Oops. Still, that's what the book is for. If in any doubt, RTFM.

JCP911S

Is it a small-bumber or crash-bumper car?

US vs ROW cars in this period could vary widely as to both engines and body-type.

This is a very transitional period, some of these cars can be very valuable, and some not so much. If you really believe you have something valuable, I'd recommend you contact a knowledgeable expert.

rusnak

G-series is correct. It's an impact bumper car (notice the front trunk). The 1974 3.0 Carrera would have been pretty collectible. I wonder what happened to the original 2.7 motor?

Amber Gramps

That car would be smog exempt in California. ....and a great backdate candidate.

rusnak

Yeah, but the engine is forward dated, is that even a proper term?

One of my friends here in Fresno bought a (badly) restored 1974 3.0 Carrera at an auction. The engine and the quality of the work was A-W-F-U-L. It was done at a very well known, well respected So Cal shop that shall remain nameless. I introduced him to my other friend, Tony, who has repaired Porsches for well over 4 decades now, and they became good friends. Tony now works on his '89 930 Slantnose Cab (yes), 993 TT, 928, Cayenne, etc etc…..

BTW the '74 was worth over $80K at the time.

gjm

911s just don't seem to be worth as much here. Several have recently been listed for sale on TradeMe (kind of a NZ version of craiglist, or eBay) and none have attracted any bids. Of course, maybe they were just priced too high for the local market.

This car had the usual 2.7 problems and was deemed uneconomical to repair. Hence the 'update' to the later 3.0.

This car has also had a particularly bad respray. Not sure if the colour is original or not, but there are runs and general very poor finish all over. The mirrors have been changed too - you can see where mirrors with a different base have been fitted at some point.

The seats are a cause for some thought. The front seats are velour, while the rears are leather. Odd.

Here's some more pics to show where I'm starting from.









At this point I must emphasise that the aim is to get this running and on the road; I've no doubt it could be worth a few $ in mint condition, but that's of absolutely no concern. This car will driven, day in and day out, in all weathers, and given the condition of many NZ roads, it'll really not be fun if we get too precious about it's potential value!

That's how I get into 'nice' cars. I'm careful with them, and very careful when working on them, but don' get hung up on their condition.

gjm

A couple of hours cleaning and it looks a lot better, inside and out. I've cleaned a huge amount of oil from the engine bay too, and removed the firewall sound deadening material. (Which, when powdery, soaks up oil like you wouldn't believe...)

A quick look underneath and it could be that the oil is dripping from somewhere towards the front of the engine. My first idea, that the tank had been overfilled following incorrect draining in looking less likely: if that were the case, I would expect there to be oil in the tank. Well, there might be, but it doesn't show on the dip stick, suggesting that the oil is finding it's way out of the engine of it's own accord.

Any thoughts?

And I'm going to spend some of th landlord's money. The ignition leads can be replaced - I'm fed up with stabbing myself on tiny bit's of wire sticking out of the braided sheaths.