Can someone explain the hate towards water cooled cars?
10-04-2013, 07:24 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone explain the hate towards water cooled cars?
Can someone explain the hate towards water cooled cars?
Is the hate directed at actual negative side effects of water cooling, or is water cooling just a proxy for other less desirable aspects of cars from that newer era? (For example, let's assume water cooled cars go slower. So, are people here actually trying to say they hate slower cars? But just saying they hate "water cooled cars". Or do they hate the actual water cooling? Like if the water cooled car was faster, would they still hate it? ie: Do they hate the slowness of the new car (or whatever proxy criterion) or the literal water cooling itself?
If it's literally the water cooling that people hate, why is that? What is so bad about cooling off the engine? Do cooler motors run poorly?
Or, if water cooling is just a proxy for other actual negative traits, (like speed or reliability) and not the actual water cooling itself, then what are those traits? What do people hate so much about the water-cooled era? Power brakes? Steering? Airbags? ABS?
Why exactly are airbags bad? If you drove head first into a tree, I think you'd feel differently about airbags. Why are anti-lock brakes so bad? If you slid off the road in snow, maybe ABS would have helped you. Can anyone come up with empircal data that shows why ABS is bad? Or airbags?
Or, is this a "macho" thing? Like, I don't need no sissy anti-lock brakes? Seems kind of childish, frankly. Or, do people think the cars are too complex to work on? That doesn't make sense, b/c ABS, airbags, PS are all basic components that be swapped out like any other part.
Is the hate directed at actual negative side effects of water cooling, or is water cooling just a proxy for other less desirable aspects of cars from that newer era? (For example, let's assume water cooled cars go slower. So, are people here actually trying to say they hate slower cars? But just saying they hate "water cooled cars". Or do they hate the actual water cooling? Like if the water cooled car was faster, would they still hate it? ie: Do they hate the slowness of the new car (or whatever proxy criterion) or the literal water cooling itself?
If it's literally the water cooling that people hate, why is that? What is so bad about cooling off the engine? Do cooler motors run poorly?
Or, if water cooling is just a proxy for other actual negative traits, (like speed or reliability) and not the actual water cooling itself, then what are those traits? What do people hate so much about the water-cooled era? Power brakes? Steering? Airbags? ABS?
Why exactly are airbags bad? If you drove head first into a tree, I think you'd feel differently about airbags. Why are anti-lock brakes so bad? If you slid off the road in snow, maybe ABS would have helped you. Can anyone come up with empircal data that shows why ABS is bad? Or airbags?
Or, is this a "macho" thing? Like, I don't need no sissy anti-lock brakes? Seems kind of childish, frankly. Or, do people think the cars are too complex to work on? That doesn't make sense, b/c ABS, airbags, PS are all basic components that be swapped out like any other part.
10-04-2013, 08:22 PM
#6
10-04-2013, 08:51 PM
#7
I love all Porsches. But the end of the aircooled line - and the start of the watercooled line, signifies several things for enthusiasts:
1) A significant drop in quality. From papier-mache interiors to severely flawed, failure-prone engines and everything in between.
2) A switch from a dedicated sports car to more of a grand tourer, like the 928. Many saw this as caving to the yuppie/poseur market, trying to be all things to all people.
3) We were flat-out disappointed. It was the first all-new 911, and in addition to the quality issues outlined above, how do you justify the switch to frameless doors? Plus it's huge (see #2)! And those headlights...
I don't hate 996s. I just like G-series 911s much better.
1) A significant drop in quality. From papier-mache interiors to severely flawed, failure-prone engines and everything in between.
2) A switch from a dedicated sports car to more of a grand tourer, like the 928. Many saw this as caving to the yuppie/poseur market, trying to be all things to all people.
3) We were flat-out disappointed. It was the first all-new 911, and in addition to the quality issues outlined above, how do you justify the switch to frameless doors? Plus it's huge (see #2)! And those headlights...
I don't hate 996s. I just like G-series 911s much better.
Trending Topics
10-04-2013, 09:55 PM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I am fortunate to have a Boxster S as well as my '85 Carrera. I love both. Although the Boxster feels much more modern, it is still very much a sports car. I think quality of the early 996/986 generation in terms of certain materials and such was a step down, but they did get better. My car is a 2004 with leather interior and it is a very well put together car. Having said that, I have been in a 1997 which looked and felt much different. The newest Porsches are even nicer. People who know me understand that I am very detail orientated (read OCD) and after a little over a year with the Box, I still have a very favorable impression of the quality.
The M96 and M97 motors have the infamous IMS bearing, which, if it should fail, will cause major collateral damage to the motor. However, there are a number of good solutions for that on the market. Some of these motors have reached very high mileages, so they have potential. Plus, we seem to forgive pulled head studs, broken chain tensioners and fast-wearing valve guides on the air cooled engines pretty easily! Certainly many of air cooled engines reach mega-mileages, but there are also those that need significant work (e.g. top ends) before 100K too.
At the end of the day, each generation of Porsches has its critics and adherents, and the internet tends to accentuate the negative. If you are undecided you need to really drive and compare. I love the air cooled 911, but I totally get the newer cars too.
The M96 and M97 motors have the infamous IMS bearing, which, if it should fail, will cause major collateral damage to the motor. However, there are a number of good solutions for that on the market. Some of these motors have reached very high mileages, so they have potential. Plus, we seem to forgive pulled head studs, broken chain tensioners and fast-wearing valve guides on the air cooled engines pretty easily! Certainly many of air cooled engines reach mega-mileages, but there are also those that need significant work (e.g. top ends) before 100K too.
At the end of the day, each generation of Porsches has its critics and adherents, and the internet tends to accentuate the negative. If you are undecided you need to really drive and compare. I love the air cooled 911, but I totally get the newer cars too.
10-04-2013, 10:14 PM
#9
Pro
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone explain the hate towards water cooled cars?
Is the hate directed at actual negative side effects of water cooling, or is water cooling just a proxy for other less desirable aspects of cars from that newer era? (For example, let's assume water cooled cars go slower. So, are people here actually trying to say they hate slower cars? But just saying they hate "water cooled cars". Or do they hate the actual water cooling? Like if the water cooled car was faster, would they still hate it? ie: Do they hate the slowness of the new car (or whatever proxy criterion) or the literal water cooling itself?
If it's literally the water cooling that people hate, why is that? What is so bad about cooling off the engine? Do cooler motors run poorly?
Or, if water cooling is just a proxy for other actual negative traits, (like speed or reliability) and not the actual water cooling itself, then what are those traits? What do people hate so much about the water-cooled era? Power brakes? Steering? Airbags? ABS?
Why exactly are airbags bad? If you drove head first into a tree, I think you'd feel differently about airbags. Why are anti-lock brakes so bad? If you slid off the road in snow, maybe ABS would have helped you. Can anyone come up with empircal data that shows why ABS is bad? Or airbags?
Or, is this a "macho" thing? Like, I don't need no sissy anti-lock brakes? Seems kind of childish, frankly. Or, do people think the cars are too complex to work on? That doesn't make sense, b/c ABS, airbags, PS are all basic components that be swapped out like any other part.
Is the hate directed at actual negative side effects of water cooling, or is water cooling just a proxy for other less desirable aspects of cars from that newer era? (For example, let's assume water cooled cars go slower. So, are people here actually trying to say they hate slower cars? But just saying they hate "water cooled cars". Or do they hate the actual water cooling? Like if the water cooled car was faster, would they still hate it? ie: Do they hate the slowness of the new car (or whatever proxy criterion) or the literal water cooling itself?
If it's literally the water cooling that people hate, why is that? What is so bad about cooling off the engine? Do cooler motors run poorly?
Or, if water cooling is just a proxy for other actual negative traits, (like speed or reliability) and not the actual water cooling itself, then what are those traits? What do people hate so much about the water-cooled era? Power brakes? Steering? Airbags? ABS?
Why exactly are airbags bad? If you drove head first into a tree, I think you'd feel differently about airbags. Why are anti-lock brakes so bad? If you slid off the road in snow, maybe ABS would have helped you. Can anyone come up with empircal data that shows why ABS is bad? Or airbags?
Or, is this a "macho" thing? Like, I don't need no sissy anti-lock brakes? Seems kind of childish, frankly. Or, do people think the cars are too complex to work on? That doesn't make sense, b/c ABS, airbags, PS are all basic components that be swapped out like any other part.
10-05-2013, 12:06 AM
#12
Addict
It isn't so much about the hate for one as it is the love for the other. Once you let that sink in we can cover the details.
Try to find a similar picture of a water cooled car.
Try to find a similar picture of a water cooled car.
