Which car to DE.........
05-28-2013, 09:44 AM
#31
Drifting
Thread Starter
05-28-2013, 12:30 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
It took a little time last winter, but the season was over and I wasn't doing much else. I bought the roll cage and seats used, and new harnesses. Then I had to learn to weld: I did well, only caught the car on fire once. Stripped and painted the interior, etc. Added a fire extinguisher.
Getting in and out is a bitch, but I feel more confident about survivability when I F up.
To tell the truth, I was a little surprised how fast some instructors want green and blue drivers to drive at DEs. Passing is usually rigidly controlled, but a lot of new drivers are driving newer cars with 300-400+ HP. I feel much better in my 200 HP car telling the instructor that we are at WOT and learning to carry momentum, than I would be learning in a newer Cayman S, Carrera S, or even a GT3! Those cars are so capable of doing speeds way beyond their green/blue drivers abilities and experience.
Some people on this board probably think I'm a wuss. F 'em.
05-28-2013, 01:04 PM
#33
Drifting
Thread Starter
I hear you on potential damage. It is a potentially dangerous sport. I don't know Lime Rock so can't comment on it's relative dangers. On the plus side, as a first timer you'll have an instructor in the car and he or she will be focused on safety. They will want you to be able to drive home. Generally speeds will not be too high in a green group and you'll have PSM on to help. But there is a mental step to take to put a really nice car at risk and many of us go through it. I went through 4 DE weekends before my first agricultural excursion. I started carrying track insurance after that. It's not that cheap for a 50 to 60k value car but I needed the peace of mind. (I use Lockton). All that said, big accidents are relatively rare. Not sure if my comments help but for a first DE I would say the overall risk is pretty low.
05-28-2013, 01:12 PM
#34
Drifting
Thread Starter
My bad on the Avatar comment...my eyes are toast!
FYI Sarge on the damage...it was one of the reasons I took a break from DE's. Running LR with $8,000 924's in the Green Group next to me as I take the downhill and track out onto the straight while driving a $150K TT kinda got to me after seeing some 'mistakes' out there. And you're right it's usually the other guy who makes the mistake, but you could be next to/behind him when it happens. I've seen a few of those at DE's...and at Lime Rock too. They bunch a $10,000 car into the wall, you bunch a $100,000 car into the wall....hmmmm.
Speeds get up there, even in the Green Group. I always found that if I was with a bunch of cars, and I was uncomfortable or wanted to spread my wings a little with them not around, I would Pit for a minute, let them get a head start, and then go back out. Even so...don't push too hard...it's your first time.
Thinking it back over, with your car values in mind, maybe I would take the TARGA?
Nick
FYI Sarge on the damage...it was one of the reasons I took a break from DE's. Running LR with $8,000 924's in the Green Group next to me as I take the downhill and track out onto the straight while driving a $150K TT kinda got to me after seeing some 'mistakes' out there. And you're right it's usually the other guy who makes the mistake, but you could be next to/behind him when it happens. I've seen a few of those at DE's...and at Lime Rock too. They bunch a $10,000 car into the wall, you bunch a $100,000 car into the wall....hmmmm.
Speeds get up there, even in the Green Group. I always found that if I was with a bunch of cars, and I was uncomfortable or wanted to spread my wings a little with them not around, I would Pit for a minute, let them get a head start, and then go back out. Even so...don't push too hard...it's your first time.
Thinking it back over, with your car values in mind, maybe I would take the TARGA?
Nick
https://www.porschedriving.com/Sports-Driving.aspx
05-28-2013, 07:23 PM
#36
Drifting
Thread Starter
I have to say, that was the most incredible driving experiance to date. The G forces I felt and the sensation that the car should have lifted up and into the woods but sticking, was amazing. It defied logic that the car stuck, but it did. It was all about rolling off the throttle at the right time, hitting the apex and dropping the hammer on the exit!
I know it's the opposite for rear engined Porsches, in that I need to stay in the throttle in the turns but I already proved to myself that I have the ***** to do push the limits of a race car. The one thing that helped me the most @ Pocono, was going for a hot lap w/ an instructor driving, before I climbed in the cockpit. That taught me to "trust" the car and was all the difference in my experiance!
05-28-2013, 09:29 PM
#37
Don't worry. As a first timer, your instructor will drive your car for a lap or two to show you the line before you get to drive anyway. Plus you'll have a beginners meeting beforehand to go over flags, hand signals etc.
I'm days away from buying a Targa myself. If I do, ill meet you up there or beforehand down here somewhere to compare notes.
I've been meaning to get back to a DE.
I'm days away from buying a Targa myself. If I do, ill meet you up there or beforehand down here somewhere to compare notes.
I've been meaning to get back to a DE.
05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
It's not mettle that is required, or bravado, it is getting past logical thought. That is the point of the DE-to train your body to instinctively know what the car is doing, and respond accordingly. I've never been afraid of speed-quite the opposite. But, that numbness to fear will not help you drive better, except at the highest levels of racing. Many cars have gobs of mechanical grip, and lend themselves to the trust you mention. You won't have that kind of inherent grip in a 911 variant street car, at speed. When the *** end kicks out in a high speed turn, and your mind/logic says lift, your inner core needs to keep the throttle modulated to keep it hooked up. You need to feel what is happening in a split second, and respond intuitively. That takes some training amd practice.
I've often said, you've not lived until you've spun a 911 at 75+ at the track. That's not to say it is necessary, but that is what it took to get me to believe in my right foot. That shouldnt happen at green group level, but after 2 or 3 weekends, when you start to "feel like Mario".
I've often said, you've not lived until you've spun a 911 at 75+ at the track. That's not to say it is necessary, but that is what it took to get me to believe in my right foot. That shouldnt happen at green group level, but after 2 or 3 weekends, when you start to "feel like Mario".
I'm not worried about myself though! I know I can handle it and have the mettle, just as I handled barreling down Pocono's front straight @ 180 and the making the sign of the cross (in my head) as I entered turn one! haha
I have to say, that was the most incredible driving experiance to date. The G forces I felt and the sensation that the car should have lifted up and into the woods but sticking, was amazing. It defied logic that the car stuck, but it did. It was all about rolling off the throttle at the right time, hitting the apex and dropping the hammer on the exit!
I know it's the opposite for rear engined Porsches, in that I need to stay in the throttle in the turns but I already proved to myself that I have the ***** to do push the limits of a race car. The one thing that helped me the most @ Pocono, was going for a hot lap w/ an instructor driving, before I climbed in the cockpit. That taught me to "trust" the car and was all the difference in my experiance!
I have to say, that was the most incredible driving experiance to date. The G forces I felt and the sensation that the car should have lifted up and into the woods but sticking, was amazing. It defied logic that the car stuck, but it did. It was all about rolling off the throttle at the right time, hitting the apex and dropping the hammer on the exit!
I know it's the opposite for rear engined Porsches, in that I need to stay in the throttle in the turns but I already proved to myself that I have the ***** to do push the limits of a race car. The one thing that helped me the most @ Pocono, was going for a hot lap w/ an instructor driving, before I climbed in the cockpit. That taught me to "trust" the car and was all the difference in my experiance!
05-29-2013, 09:32 AM
#39
Drifting
Thread Starter
It's not mettle that is required, or bravado, it is getting past logical thought. That is the point of the DE-to train your body to instinctively know what the car is doing, and respond accordingly. I've never been afraid of speed-quite the opposite. But, that numbness to fear will not help you drive better, except at the highest levels of racing. Many cars have gobs of mechanical grip, and lend themselves to the trust you mention. You won't have that kind of inherent grip in a 911 variant street car, at speed. When the *** end kicks out in a high speed turn, and your mind/logic says lift, your inner core needs to keep the throttle modulated to keep it hooked up. You need to feel what is happening in a split second, and respond intuitively. That takes some training amd practice.
I've often said, you've not lived until you've spun a 911 at 75+ at the track. That's not to say it is necessary, but that is what it took to get me to believe in my right foot. That shouldnt happen at green group level, but after 2 or 3 weekends, when you start to "feel like Mario".
I've often said, you've not lived until you've spun a 911 at 75+ at the track. That's not to say it is necessary, but that is what it took to get me to believe in my right foot. That shouldnt happen at green group level, but after 2 or 3 weekends, when you start to "feel like Mario".
05-29-2013, 11:52 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
I hear you Ed and we are actually on the same page. The point of my last post, wasn't that I was fearless of speed, it was that I was able to handle the mental aspect of things. It 100% defied all mental logic to enter the turns at those speeds. Especially turn one off the straight, where I was hitting between 170 - 180. As I was entering the turn, all my senses were telling me to slow down, hit the brakes and that the car is going to lift up in the air and fly off the track into the woods! Hitting high speed on the straights, is the easiest part of any race. It's the turns that separates the men from the boys!
05-29-2013, 01:20 PM
#43
Drifting
Thread Starter
You want to defy senses? I've taken rides in a GT3 Cup car twice, with Patrick Long driving. We hired him a couple of times for some private coaching down in Texas, and had a car set up with a passenger seat and harnesses for him to take us on laps, in addition to driving our cars. That was unbelievable. It is amazing how brutal he enters turns, in both side loads and braking g's.
That's exactly what I did in the stock car (aka hot laps), before I went on my own. Although it wasn't w/ Patrick Long or Jimmy Johnson for that matter. lol
It showed me the car's potential and capabilities at the limit. If I didn't do it, I would not have been able to "trust" the car as I did in the turns. It enabled me to get the most out of my driving experience.
05-29-2013, 01:24 PM
#44
Drifting
Thread Starter
Registration doesn't open till mid June, check the registration site for details. Let's talk as the day approaches. I know about Pocono and would love to do it there, but no good schedule wise.
05-29-2013, 02:49 PM
#45
Race Car
I'm not worried about myself though! I know I can handle it and have the mettle, just as I handled barreling down Pocono's front straight @ 180 and the making the sign of the cross (in my head) as I entered turn one! haha
I have to say, that was the most incredible driving experiance to date. The G forces I felt and the sensation that the car should have lifted up and into the woods but sticking, was amazing. It defied logic that the car stuck, but it did. It was all about rolling off the throttle at the right time, hitting the apex and dropping the hammer on the exit!
I know it's the opposite for rear engined Porsches, in that I need to stay in the throttle in the turns but I already proved to myself that I have the ***** to do push the limits of a race car. The one thing that helped me the most @ Pocono, was going for a hot lap w/ an instructor driving, before I climbed in the cockpit. That taught me to "trust" the car and was all the difference in my experiance!
I have to say, that was the most incredible driving experiance to date. The G forces I felt and the sensation that the car should have lifted up and into the woods but sticking, was amazing. It defied logic that the car stuck, but it did. It was all about rolling off the throttle at the right time, hitting the apex and dropping the hammer on the exit!
I know it's the opposite for rear engined Porsches, in that I need to stay in the throttle in the turns but I already proved to myself that I have the ***** to do push the limits of a race car. The one thing that helped me the most @ Pocono, was going for a hot lap w/ an instructor driving, before I climbed in the cockpit. That taught me to "trust" the car and was all the difference in my experiance!