kloftus1044

Hello from a new guy!

I've been lurking around for a while, searching for info specific to the 911, getting a feel for the forum and trying to learn as much as I can before asking obvious newbie questions.

Currently, I'm looking at two 996 variants and plan on driving them as soon as I get a chance. One is a 2001 with 35,000 miles and the other is a 2004 with 55,000 miles. And both cars look fantastic from the photos online. The prices are nice, too, with both cars starting at $31k hard earned American fun bucks.

It seems there's a part of the Porsche community that dislikes the 996. Why is that? Is it a truly a bad version of the 911? Are Porsche enthusiasts curmudgeons pining for the air-cooled days? Is it something else?

A 996 could be my first Porsche and I'd love to get some insight about the car from people who know. All opinions are welcome. Fire away!

Amber Gramps

You are welcome here anytime, but there is a place that may be better for you:

https://rennlist.com/forums/forumdis...?s=&forumid=60


Just stay away from Groovzilla, ivangene, and Divot.

Wachuko

IMHO of course...skip the 996 (unless you are buying a 996Turbo)...and go for a 997. Flame suit on.

And it does not have to do with air cooled vs water cooled... 997 interior and exterior details are just so much better than the 996. And depending on budget, if you can get the later ones with the redesigned engine (2009-> ), even better...

kloftus1044

Thanks for the kind welcome! I reposted over in the forum you suggested.

race911

But it has everything to do with the engine installed in the non-GT3, non-Turbo variants of the 996 (and -'08) 997 models............

A quick search of intermediate bearing issues (among other things) will provide you with hours of reading.

Wachuko

+1

ivangene

sound advice !!

blake

The 996 was truly Porsches first real "let's follow the route of mass production" for the 911 line. They went with cheaper materials and the market noticed. They got aggressive with the styling, and some thought it went in the wrong direction. They introduced a new, cheaper to manufacture engine (M96) that could not easily be rebuilt by mechanics, and it was recommended by Porsche that the local dealer servicing it "crate it up" and "send it in" for a full replacement rather than allow for tinkering. But alas, that M96 engine has had a few problems (IMS leaks, oil starvation under high G loads, etc.) so that disturbed the purists. Additionally, they put the older 964/GT1-derived engine in the GT2/GT3/Turbo variants of the 996 which further segmented the market (these engines were more proven on the track in extreme conditions)...

Now is all this negativity fair? In my opinion, not really... The 996s are still a blast to drive and are a great value. Most of the issues have been fixed by careful owners over the years. They were produced during a global market boom, so MANY were built. This oversupply coupled with a negative view from the purists has pushed down prices. To me, that is opportunity.

As a DD or a weekend car, the 996 line is a great option. For the track, a 996 GT3 can't be beat.

So my advice to you is to ignore the critics - and get the car YOU like. With the 997s coming down in price, those are a viable option as well. Just be CERTAIN to do a PPI on whatever P-car you choose.

Good luck with your search. That is half the fun.

My $0.02,
-B

theiceman

You have to also keep in mind comig into a classic 911 forum and asking why should you buy a 996 in best case could be called insite to riot and in worse case troling.
You would be better off and less likely to cause turmoil in going to the 996 forum and ask why you should consider a 996 and come here and ask why you should consider a classic 911.

Good luck .. both have their attibutes .. i think a 996 is all round a better daily driver but i would NEVER trade for one ..

Ed Hughes

Better do your homework on any 996 you may lust for.

But, good question: WHY WOULD you, or anyone, buy a 996???

race911

No it hasn't. What has is the ______ _______ company cheaping out, leaving (usually) the customer holding the bag. I don't give a rat's *** what they plugged in for an engine over the years; if you can't reasonably rely on the thing to keep itself in one piece during typical, reasonable, normal sports car street use over a reasonable service life, it's a problem. While I haven't been in the business since before the M96 was introduced, I played this game with nearly new, just out of warranty 944s in the mid-'80s. Between those, and self-induced blown 930 engine repairs I was able to have a nest egg allowing me to start law school.

And if we needed yet another reason to be suspect over the things, just last week I hear from a Boxster specialist that the 2.7L variants are having o-ring failures between the case halves causing oil/water mixing. No repair except completely tearing the engine down.

Yeah, we're "purists"..................

theiceman

..absolutely ...

you have to remember us "purists" have a much larger percentage of enthusiasts than the M96 crowd , we tend to have been around longer and seen more. Not saying that we know it all but tend to have long histories in the Marque. Where we will all admit every engine has had there issues. Just about all are repairable and not even close to engine ending. The M96 just has too many issues they will end the life of the engine prematurly. D chunking, IMS castrophic failure .. ( not "IMS leak" ) Ovaling of the cylinders is another huge issue that gets lost in the shuffle , particularly on cylinder 6 and your engine s pretty ell toast due to that too.

Yes there are a lot more on the road and the chances of failure may be small. Jut do research and be aware of what you are getting into. May not be a bad idea to listen to the "purists" .. they will tell you everything , not everything you want to hear ..

groovzilla

i really never thought this would be a topic i would be discussing but i think age is a factor when it comes to the decision.

i've owned lots of 356's, lots of aircooled 911's and a 996 - i will never sell my 59 356 super sunroof coupe however long trips are somewhat challenging during the summer months because of overheating especially in the siskyous heading down to california from seattle. i've done the trip several times in my 356 and i've learned to drive at night thru the mountains. also when driving in hot calif during the day, staying in the shadow of tractor trailers helps keep the engine temp down

the aircooled 911's are the true porsche - if you've never smelled the oil leaks after a long hard drive you haven't lived. they have soul and something about the sound of the aircooled engine is just something you can't compare. they are driving cars - it is more like they drive you compared to the later water cooled 996 cars which feel more like you are driving them.

the 993 is probably the best aircooled design for both drivability and comfort - they have CEL issues which can be somewhat troublesome but they are a beautiful design however 2x the 996 money.

for me it has come down to creature comforts - now in my mid 50's i don't like to bend as much because of sports injuries creeping up and the 996 has a great comfortable ride - it is also surprisingly nimble and has a great clutch/tranny feel heating system and i just really like the wide *** look on them - not crazy about the headlight design but i don't have the money for an 06 model unless of course i plan to live in a trailer behind our house when my wife got done with me.
__________________

Wachuko

I just could not get used to the looks of the 996... even in my 996TT I hated the interior and the quality of the different plastic bits, but at least I knew that engine dated back to the Porsche heritage, and the exterior looked great. Yes, never a fan of the egg headlights, reason why I think the 997 was such an improvement.

blake

Ken will always pick up the arms and fight the battle - I respect that.

Let me say it differently then. Comparing Porsches to Porsches, the 996 was a weak point. But when comparing the 996 to the equivalent BMW or E46 M3, I think the evolution of both Porsche and BMW has become quite clear - quality dropped (fit-and-finish, reliability, etc.) in favor of profits. I owned several 3-series Bimmers last decade, and struggled with notorious water pump issues and carbon build-up in their DFI engines. BMW (and Mini Cooper) both denied any issues even though the web forums were abuzz... After 4 water pumps through 80k miles, it clearly must have been my fault...

My point is that Porsche went the way of the mass-produced car manufacturer, and for the most part I have not forgiven them. However, the GT-series of 911s introduced in 1999 (but not available in the states until 2004) appears far closed to the lineage of Porsche than the 996 and 997. The engine, drive-train and suspension were all race-track proven. The feel behind the wheel is remarkably different than the base 996. I view these cars as "throw-backs".

But am I being fair with my expectation in this "new" market? The 996 (for instance) was a more compliant drive and I saw many more non-sports car enthusiasts driving them new. It definitely expanded the brand. Isn't that good?

So I stand by my "purist" comment, and I consider myself a purist as well... If you have driven both long and short-nose late '60s 911s, a '73 RS, a '79SC, an '84 Carrera (915), an 89 Carrera (G50), a 964 RSA, a 964 US Cup, or a 993 S - you would agree that a 996 feels NOTHING like those cars. In fact, it feels and drives (to me) more like a Japanese sports car. That was the rub.

So is the 996 a good choice? Compared to older 911s, it will be less reliable and feels more docile. But compared to a BMW of the same timeframe, it is completely in-line with the lineage change. It is a high performance car that is fun to drive. Personally, I expected more from Porsche with the 996 - but as I get older and drive more "exotic" cars, I am beginning to accept the 996 and feel it would make a good driver's car when compared to its peers of the same timeframe...

And the 996 on the track? Well, that's another question entirely that has been addressed many times on other threads... I'll plead the 5th.

Just my $0.02,
-B