Hello Rennlisters,

I am finally on the hunt for a 3.2, after many years of dreaming.

I am new to this entire process. I have read "The Used 911 Story" and have been following this forum for years, but now that I'm in a position to look for a car I realize that I really don't know anything!

I'm hoping that some of you may be able to pass on some advice for looking for a car, assessing the car, and the deal making process. How do you strike a deal with somebody on the other side of the continent, and then trust that when you fly out to pick up the car they are going to hold up their end of the deal?!

What do you think of this car?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...low-miles.html

I look forward to joining this community in the near future!

All the best,
-Jonathan

 

From the pics it looks like a good car, there is a chance this guy showed up to one of our drives one weekend but i didn't get much time to talk to him. Looks to be in good shape 77K is relatively low from what I have seen with these cars. Many of these cars I have seen lately are over 100K (miles that is). Paint appears to be in decent shape. He has all the paper work which is a good thing. I would ask for a copy of the paperwork before you go through with any thing and a PPI is a must. Ask him if there is any rust under the battery, usually people say there is no rust on these cars and forget to check under the battery. I only know a bit about Carrera prices these days, 23K may be fair it may be a bit high. I will say its a buyers market with the economy the way it is. You may be able to get it down to 20K or so.

Regards
Dave

 

Dave,

Thank-you for your reply, that is great advice. I agree about your comment on the price as I thought it might be a bit high as well, although as you say it is relatively low mileage.

Just came across this one, and I love black... what I would give to be able to go check it out in person!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...g50-coupe.html

This is a bit more around my budget. I am not looking for a garage queen, I am looking for a car that is mechanically sound and I can enjoy driving without worrying if a seat looks worn or the 25 year old bumper gets a stone chip!

 

This car also looks like its in good shape. The price is with out a doubt better and it sounds like the guy really cared for it. What would bring me to this over the other is that at 15K an engine rebuild is not out of the question and you wont be too sunk in, in terms of cost. If he has it listed for 15.9K you may be able to get him to 13Kish if you promise that it is going to a good home. (thats what I did and it worked).

The other car never listed engine issues or if a rebuild was ever done. So lets assume that the cars are in about the same shape. Although one has a lot more miles it sounds like it was well cared for and with these cars, they will last forever if well cared for. Say you will most likely at least get a top end job on either engine as it does not seem like they were done recently. You will get the seats reupholstered as they were both listed as worn. And for this one you will get a new dash (1.5K if you shop around). With car 2 you are always in a better place.

I also love black, both my targa and 924s are black. I would ask guy 2 for a lot more info and think seriously about getting a PPI done. From there if it looks good you will start to think about purchase. Naturally dont settle any thing untill you see the car in person.

Regards
Dave

 

Jonathon congrats on graduating to actually looking. Both look like decent cars , you have seen my car and know how i am about things. That second one with the dash mat concerns me. I hope it is there to protect the dash and not because the harsh California sun has cracked it to death.

Black Dashes however are atainable albeit expensive but may require windshied removal to replace. i would second Daves opinion and get more info . If you are still looking the next time I bring my car out I will walk you around my car and show you what to look for. The PPI is obviously a must , and dont be afraid to list some specific items you want the mechanic to check , they often wont mind as this prevents them from missing it. Some ones that arent so obvious include inspecting the torsion bar area for worn spring bushings. Inspecting to see if it has upgraded rear sway bar mounts, checking for turbo tierods etc.

 

I like the black one. Rear tires look good. Wondering if the dash mat is protecting or hiding the dash. Driver seat / bolster might be died for under $100. Paint looks good. Nice stance - appears to have been lowered. Surely there are Rennlisters who would take a look for you.

 

While I love white cars of those choices I would be most interested in the G50 car.

As to your question above you need to vet the owner with the same dilegence you PPI the car. Google the owner make sure they have ties to their community, homeowner or business owner. Learn about where they work etc...

There is a certain amount of leap of faith you have to make when buying out of someones driveway. They have your money and you have to trust that they will turn the car over to you in stated condition. For 1 get a signed bill of sale (use your states form) at the time of agreed sale. Use your best judgement when sizing up the seller. Are they willing to let you come to their home..etc. If they are the least bit shady and less than forth coming I would move on to the next deal.

regards

Mike

 

The most important thing is to go out and actually look at as many 911s in person as you can. You'll learn a lot by looking, asking questions, and listening to them run.

 

Get a car for it's mechanical condition not for it's technical specification. When it comes to getting classic cars like these I would not let the color be a deal breaker at all. Take your time, look and (although not easy to do so) drive several examples. I would also include SC's in your search. I started my search w/ the 964 and ended up falling in love w/ the Fuch's, impact bumpers and the lack of power steering feel of the pre-964's. G-50 vs 915 gearbox should not be the deal breaker either. Drive both and decide. I like many started off my search looking for a G-50 ..... and now trust me, a 915 in good shape is pure delight to drive.

If I were making the choice between two cars, I would approach it this way

1) Which has the fewest mods/least molested ?
2) Which is not a garage queen. This tells me that the car was driven adequately and hence got the maintenance that is needed when cars are driven. Beware that any car approaching over 100 to 110 K miles on the odo will require a top end rebuild at some point (though this is not always a given and there are some with way fewer miles that need one).
3) Which has the best service records (which will tell U how it has been
cared for up until now) ?
3) Which one has a better PPI ? (this will tell the current condition)

Good luck with search. The guys in this section of the forum are awesome. They will certainly help you out just like they did for me when I was in the hunt.

 

Excellent advice... I should have done more of that myself. It really helps to put things into context and helps you develop reference points to judge similar cars against.

Based on the limited info in the postings, I like the black car. It had quite a bit of real work done in 2010 and looks like a solid driver. The asking price is such that if you have to do a rebuild sooner rather than later, you won't be so badly under water... (relatively speaking)

EDIT:

I should add that I would by no means disregard the white car, it is worth checking out. Although many will likely state that over $20K is starting to get into big money for 3.2 Carreras, I would not hesitate to recommend paying that much for a TRULY nice car. At 77K miles, that white car might fall into that category, but it also might not…

I have learned in intimate detail just how expensive it is to fix many things on these cars and I believe that many really nice cars are much better value at high-ish asking prices than many fixer-uppers that look like steals…

Detailed inspection, review of records, interview of owners, opinions from this board and, most importantly PPIs are your best tools.

 

Thanks Clive! It was the Rennlist crew that I owe much of my enthusiasm to, what a fantastic community. Without people like you and Ted my passion for the "real" 911's might not have been what it is today - so thank-you!

Looks like that black beauty has sold already, I never got an email reply so I'm guessing someone more local was ready to scoop it up! Nevertheless, I will take the advice about the torsion bar and spring bushings into account when it comes time to look closely at a car. I'm hoping it happens before you manage to bring the SC out for summer!

Dave, it's true what they say about black being an obsession not a colour! It's probably a good thing that this black car sold so quickly because my emotions took over when I saw it and I started falling in love with it without knowing anything about the car. Great points about the engine comparisons, I will keep that in mind when looking at different cars.

Sure did look like a great car - I guess that's why it didn't last! There will be plenty more for me to look into.

Mike, thanks for commenting on "making the deal" process. This is the part of car buying that has me most nervous, especially when the potential cars are so far away. I will likely have plenty more questions as I go along, and am happy to have such a great online community to turn to for advice!

I've been trying to soak up as much as possible over the last few years. I've been lucky enough to have driven a few variations (an '88, '87, and '77 with a 3.2 swap) but by no means do I know a lot about what I'm looking for. I think "The Used 911 Story" is going to become my bible!

Thanks W00t, I really enjoyed reading your threads back when you were looking for your car, as well as all of your contributions to the 911 forum since (the multi-part series on what makes a 911 special comes to mind immediately!).

Trying to be open-minded about the specification of the car is going to be difficult, as I am generally a very picky person who knows what I want and do not sway easily! In other words, I'm stubborn! I'm working on it though, at first it was "must be coupe, must be black on black, must have factory spoilers, must have LSD, must have sport seats". I've lightened up a little since then. I am still looking only at coupes, and my preference is to black with the factory spoilers, but I am open to other configurations so long as, as you stated, the mechanical condition warrants the deviation from my dream specs! I have also learned to love colours other than black, I think I'd be open to almost any colour except red (no offense red car owners, just isn't "me").

Reading these forums I have decided that 915 vs G50 isn't something I want to dwell on at all. Having driven both I can't say that I found one worse than the other, so this will not be a deciding factor. I supremely enjoyed driving both!

I will likely ask for more information on the white car, including details on service records and as Dave pointed out, whether or not the engine has had work done in its lifetime. It has been for sale for awhile, so I think their asking price is a bit steep. Time to learn!

If anybody comes across any potentials, please let me know! Thank-you for all the responses so far, can you tell I'm excited!?

 

I noticed that one also. PM'd him minutes after he posted and never heard from him. GL.

 

What is considered a "high mileage" 3.2, assuming the engine has not been rebuilt, but maintained (valve clearances and guides checked etc)?

How many miles is typical before a clutch job is required? Zimmerman's book says 60k. What about the transmission?

I have inquired about a few cars for sale and am in the "information gathering" stage... But finding I don't know what to think of the information I'm getting!

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

Jonathan, I'm far from an expert on these cars and learning just like you but it seems your question will be hard to answer in black and white. There seem to be stories of cars driven out to 250K plus with no motor work and some don't make it to 100K. Maintenance, abuse, luck of the draw??

For me a high mileage 3.2 car might be 150k plus. If I had to pick a number, but again lots of varibles come into play once you pick a specific car.

The story on my own is an 88 with 108K on it. Engine has never been into (that I was made aware of) runs strong, plugs burn clean, uses little oil. The clutch has been done at least once probably more and the G50 has had work to it also.... Sycros records show and mileage was around 95K.

Stay at it and you will find the right car

Mike

 

Did you notice the rockers? looks like some one messed up when they went to lift it.
And that front seat looks like it's seen lot more the 70k miles.imho