Is this a real Fuch's?
05-30-2003, 11:42 PM
#4
The Hoffinator
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no problem, Fuchs=fox in german, thats why the symbol.
those are the 2 key signs that you have real fuchs (the fox and porsche part number. and not fuched up aftermarket fuchs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
the other easy way to tell is how they feel when you pick em up. after market fake fuchs are heavy as hell, where the real deal are light.
those are the 2 key signs that you have real fuchs (the fox and porsche part number. and not fuched up aftermarket fuchs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
the other easy way to tell is how they feel when you pick em up. after market fake fuchs are heavy as hell, where the real deal are light.
05-31-2003, 12:03 AM
#5
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I have to claim ignorance here. What is the advantage of a "real" Fuchs? Strength? Looks? Were these manufactured for Porsche by an independent company? Thanks.
05-31-2003, 12:16 AM
#6
The Hoffinator
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youre never ignorant unless you do not ask. i wouldnt know any of this if i didnt ask, or listen/read other online message board conversations about this stuff. dont worry ask away, thats what we're all here for! to learn and teach, and to discover more about our cars than any sane person would want to know! 
im not 100% sure, but id say 98% sure.. so lets just say im pretty close on this.
fuchs are an independant company hired by porsche to make their wheels for them.
the advantage? very light. the lighter the wheel, the less unsprung weight (easier for the wheels to move, makes the car faster!!!!) id say looks are a definite plus. and they are pretty damn strong. more than anything with german companies, its form meats function. pleasing to the eye, as well as having and meeting a very specific purpose.
fake fuchs have the look, just like fake bbs wheels, or whatever, but definitly not the same quality or the same weight as the real deal.
im not 100% sure, but id say 98% sure.. so lets just say im pretty close on this.
fuchs are an independant company hired by porsche to make their wheels for them.
the advantage? very light. the lighter the wheel, the less unsprung weight (easier for the wheels to move, makes the car faster!!!!) id say looks are a definite plus. and they are pretty damn strong. more than anything with german companies, its form meats function. pleasing to the eye, as well as having and meeting a very specific purpose.
fake fuchs have the look, just like fake bbs wheels, or whatever, but definitly not the same quality or the same weight as the real deal.
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05-31-2003, 05:10 AM
#8
Race Car
Many of today's best wheels are cast. The problem isn't with the process, per se (although it's improved over time), but with the fact that some early Fuchs duplicators copied the Fuchs dimensions completely. A design that was strong enough with forged alloy was not as strong with cast alloy. Had they modified the design slightly, for greater substance and strength, there wouldn't have been as many failures.
Many clubs ban fake Fuchs, although I'd guess many of the more-modern duplicates pass TUV in Germany and would be fine, even for track use.
Problem is, you need to know more than just whether the wheel is genuine or not.
As an aside, here's a post I put up on the Pelican BBS about Fuchs history:
Paraphrased from Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele:
Otto Fuchs Metallwerke had made forged wheels for armored military vehicles for Porsche during the war. So it made sense for Porsche to contact the same company when they came up with the idea of creating light alloy wheels for their 911 production car in the mid-60's. Fuchs representative Herr Kretsch offered Porsche something beyond their expectations, though: the possibility of mass-producing a high quality forged alloy wheel.
Nothing on this scale had ever been attempted in Germany.
Heinrich Klie of the Porsche model department (the early version of the styling studio) was given the task of styling the wheel. He became the 'father' of the Fuchs wheel. He is also responsible for a number of 911 design details, including the complete dashboard.
Klie and his team were given no precise instructions for the wheel, so he simply went to work with Plasticine modeling clay and came up with a design. Where styling assignments would typically involve weeks of trial and error, changes, and new revisions, this wasn't the case with the Fuchs wheel. The first model was shown to Ferry Porsche, who approved it "with a wave of a hand," according to Klie.
<img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/2FuchsMeeting.jpg" alt=" - " />
It then went to the suspension design department, where engineer Rudolf Hoffmann was responsible for the wheel's physical properties. Minor modifications were made.
From there, Fuchs chief engineer Karl-Heinz Ochel had to oversee a whole new process for manufacturing the wheel. 58 steps were required to make a single Fuchs wheel.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">From Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele
"To be precise, the Fuchs wheel was formed by the following steps. A pressed piece of stock was forged to make a forging blank. Next, drop forging the blank produced the ventilation holes and deburred the flange. A further drop forging step resulted in a split flange, before the workpiece was widened by rolling. And here is the secret advantage of this complex manufacturing process: the Fuchs wheel stayed in production for so many years because it could be rolled to any width desired. The forming process resulted in a wheel with a completely finished inner side. The outer, visible side of the wheel was turned on special lathes, which resulted in the smallest possible wheel imbalance. A carefully developed surface finish -- polishing, anodizing, and painting -- permitted different design variations over the years and assured high corrosion resistance."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/2FuchsSteps.jpg" alt=" - " />
After being tested directly on numerous cars, some very minor changes were made, and the wheels were offered on the 1967 models. There was some internal controversy in the company over the design itself, but the marketing people prevailed in support of the wheel, and history proved them correct. The wheel became a runaway success and remained a design fixture on the 911 for 20 years.
(Image quality is only so-so because I don't have a scanner. I used a digital camera.)
Many clubs ban fake Fuchs, although I'd guess many of the more-modern duplicates pass TUV in Germany and would be fine, even for track use.
Problem is, you need to know more than just whether the wheel is genuine or not.
As an aside, here's a post I put up on the Pelican BBS about Fuchs history:
Paraphrased from Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele:
Otto Fuchs Metallwerke had made forged wheels for armored military vehicles for Porsche during the war. So it made sense for Porsche to contact the same company when they came up with the idea of creating light alloy wheels for their 911 production car in the mid-60's. Fuchs representative Herr Kretsch offered Porsche something beyond their expectations, though: the possibility of mass-producing a high quality forged alloy wheel.
Nothing on this scale had ever been attempted in Germany.
Heinrich Klie of the Porsche model department (the early version of the styling studio) was given the task of styling the wheel. He became the 'father' of the Fuchs wheel. He is also responsible for a number of 911 design details, including the complete dashboard.
Klie and his team were given no precise instructions for the wheel, so he simply went to work with Plasticine modeling clay and came up with a design. Where styling assignments would typically involve weeks of trial and error, changes, and new revisions, this wasn't the case with the Fuchs wheel. The first model was shown to Ferry Porsche, who approved it "with a wave of a hand," according to Klie.
<img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/2FuchsMeeting.jpg" alt=" - " />
It then went to the suspension design department, where engineer Rudolf Hoffmann was responsible for the wheel's physical properties. Minor modifications were made.
From there, Fuchs chief engineer Karl-Heinz Ochel had to oversee a whole new process for manufacturing the wheel. 58 steps were required to make a single Fuchs wheel.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">From Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele
"To be precise, the Fuchs wheel was formed by the following steps. A pressed piece of stock was forged to make a forging blank. Next, drop forging the blank produced the ventilation holes and deburred the flange. A further drop forging step resulted in a split flange, before the workpiece was widened by rolling. And here is the secret advantage of this complex manufacturing process: the Fuchs wheel stayed in production for so many years because it could be rolled to any width desired. The forming process resulted in a wheel with a completely finished inner side. The outer, visible side of the wheel was turned on special lathes, which resulted in the smallest possible wheel imbalance. A carefully developed surface finish -- polishing, anodizing, and painting -- permitted different design variations over the years and assured high corrosion resistance."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img src="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/2FuchsSteps.jpg" alt=" - " />
After being tested directly on numerous cars, some very minor changes were made, and the wheels were offered on the 1967 models. There was some internal controversy in the company over the design itself, but the marketing people prevailed in support of the wheel, and history proved them correct. The wheel became a runaway success and remained a design fixture on the 911 for 20 years.
(Image quality is only so-so because I don't have a scanner. I used a digital camera.)
05-31-2003, 09:42 AM
#9
The Hoffinator
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wow! thanks Jack! just wondering, do you know if fuchs made more wheels for porsche than just the 'fuchs' paddle wheels? i heared somewhere they also made the cookie cutters is that correct?
05-31-2003, 10:16 AM
#10
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by hoffman912:
<strong>i heared somewhere they also made the cookie cutters is that correct?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No. The cookie cutters were made by ATS.
TT
<strong>i heared somewhere they also made the cookie cutters is that correct?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No. The cookie cutters were made by ATS.
TT
