Shannon123

I'm getting close to pulling trigger on '86 911. I know a PPI is critical in most peoples minds. On the other hand, I just got done reading a 911 930 horror story (Pelican) regarding a recent purchase in UK. Short version: The gentleman had the car PPI'd at reputable P-car dealer and nothing was found to be wrong or in need of immediate attention. Before the guy takes delivery but after he buys it he has another P-car guy sort it out a bit and ends up spending $9k just to get the car to run adequately......even then, it ran terribly until he got it home (France) and had his mechanic tune it.

While I have 'searched' for this topic, I really did not find the answer to my question which is...Has anyone ever had a PPI then discovered quickly that they had big problems ? If so, did you do any heavy handing on the PPI issuer ?

I realize these PPI's are meant for buyers peace of mind, but businesses have their goodwill to protect as well. Ie...They need to get the PPI right !

rusnak

Caveat emptor.

OttawaDave

Rusnak has it right - best thing to do is make sure that the PPI is done by an independent shop that is recommended by the local chapter of the PCA or other enthusiasts who know these old cars.

logan2z

My experience: the PPIs I've had on both my 993 and my '87 Carrera missed things - significant things in the case of the Carrera. Both were done by highly reputable indy Porsche specialists that are frequently recommended on these forums. We always hear 'PPI PPI PPI' around here, but my faith in them has been somewhat diminished. That said, I don't feel confident enough to assess the mechanical condition of these cars on my own, and would likely cave in and have a PPI performed should I ever purchase another used Porsche.

Arctic1

Sounds like someone who bought a car sight unseen - might explain a lot of that particular horror story. A thorough test drive should have told him whether the car was running well or not.

I doubt that there will be much recourse against the business that did the PPI. At most possibly the refund of the PPI $$ and maybe a discount on future work, but they are not in business to give away a lot of free work (even if it was caused by an oversight on their behalf). End of the day is that the business that did the PPI actually did no work on the car so why should they be blamed?

Are PPI's valuable? Depends. I have had inspections done on some cars, but any car that I ultimately purchase I never had inspected - and my mechanical abilities are limited to doing oil changes.

jb

jackb911

+1 on what rusnak said.

When you have your PPI done, make sure a compression & leakdown test is performed and have the lower rocker arm covers removed to check for broken exhaust side head studs. This, and prematurely worn valve guides are the major mechanical issues the '84-89 Carreras have...at least some of them.

A comprehensive PPI by a competent mechanic is not going to be cheap but it can save you mucho $$$ in the long run. With that said a PPI normally does not constitute an express or implied warranty unless you have written documentation to that effect.

Shannon123

HUm....I thought head studs were -re-78 issues ? no ?

A discussion on head studs

BTW, love your car Jack

MSHii

That's been my experience too, Jack. If you are in a hurry, and you hurry the PPI, it may wind up being a costly mistake. The shop that I have been hanging around approaches their PPIs with a step by step process. If "this" is found after the leakdown, this is recommended. Once that is done, the head studs are inspected. I do not know the step by step process, but I do know that it is exhaustive, and I have witnessed some people refrain from spending the money on a car that they don't own, but it ends up being a fraction of what one could spend on a car that is unknowingly in disrepair after a purchase.

Brett San Diego

Pre-78 the problem is studs pulling out of the magnesium engine case. 78 and post-78, the problem is the studs breaking. Even 84 and later Carreras break studs here and there but, I believe, less commonly than SC's.

Brett

jackb911

Check out post # 130 (page 7) on this thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...egining-7.html

And this was a 964 engine which seem to have fewer head stud issues than SC's and Carreras.

I also found my broken stud during a valve adjustment. Unless you have multiple broken studs (it happens), you would never know there is a problem.

Mine were replaced with ARP studs which hopefully will last forever!

whalebird

Another angle that may get me some debate, however...
I recommend getting the shop that normally services the car to do a PPI. A consciences owner should be happy to disclose the shop that does the work. That shop can pull the file and also tell you the condition of the car from memory in many cases. I can see the "conflict of interest" angle from a buyers view, but a reputable shop will have no problems representing the buyer when that is who's paying for the information. A good owner/seller, with a good car, using a good shop will have nothing to hide. In fact, I recommend contacting various shops and asking them if they know of any cars for sale.

Brads911sc

Where is your potential car located? I see you are just North of Houston. There are 2-3 excellent shops in houston. Rennsport in Sealy with Mike Calas. European Auto Techniks with Crawley in North Houston / Spring are two that have a bunch of old air cooled Porsches in their shops and do excellent work... Including PPI's. Knight Racing is opening in houston as well. Taking most of the Sam / Protecnik assets since that closed down. I think most cities have good choices. Its always buyer beware... but with a good PPI your risk is much less than buying without one.

Shannon123

The car is in Tahoe......nonetheless, Thanks for the resources Brad.

rusnak

That reminds me, when I was just out of school and looking for something to do, I went to look at some Porsches. One was a black 944 Turbo - this was years ago. The shop that did the work was like "oh yeah, I remember that car. Terrible service history, dumb owner, cuts corners all the time, etc etc." That saved me the time and hassle of even looking at it again. I think most repair shops will be pretty straightforward. Listen for what they don't say, as well as what they do say. Ask questions.

oldskewel

I think it is usually the horror stories that you hear about, so here's another data point.

I bought my '85 back in 1996 from the ~3rd owner who had owned it for 2 years. Neither the PO nor I knew anything about the history prior to that except for having the warranty book which was stamped with regular services for the first 40k miles or so. Serviced at the Stable in SF (reputable shop, seemed very honest and professional). The PO insisted on getting one last oil change, smog check, + checkout, at his expense, before selling it, after we had agreed on a price. As part of that, he paid for the mechanic to do a PPI, who found a couple of minor things (e.g., leaking oil return tubes - nothing major). I realized the potential conflict of interest, but as Whalebird says, a good shop will probably be honest in a case like this.

14+ years of self-maintenance later, the biggest expense so far has been tires, so it has been a great car.

Another clue was that he showed me the receipts for a couple of major services done on the car for the PO at that shop. There were like 10-15 items on the service - I could see that they were fixing every little thing that was not perfect or was starting to go, vs. fixing as little as possible to keep it on the road.