marrott01

I am doing this for a friend who is neither mechanically or technically skilled to work on the car or ask questions about it in this awesome forum. I have been studying the CIS system and i am by all means no expert or even in the same league as most of u. I have a CIS FP Guage set on the way.

Our problem is at current, cold start and Idle, the car will neither Cold start period (except a compression start which is daily to get to from work) and once started he has to give gas pedal or engine will die immediately

The car which is a '74 chassis and we believe a '78 sc 3.0 engine has no fuel pressure relay so fuel pump stays active w/ key on( no crank) and from what he says no fuel pressure regulator. Cold Start Valve seems to be running well(pulled from housing has good spray pattern), AAR seems to be stuck open, let warm along time, checked for 12 v. and is getting but didnt check for ground. The WUR we are going to take apart tonight and see if it is stuck open for we feel that when we do have it started it is running lean. He has also taken it opon hoimself to adjust the mixture screw to higher his idle(counterclockwise?). When cranking and no start we pulled the #1 spark plug and was completely saturated w/ fuel. He claims it to have good spark (has permatune), I am mostly worried about timing.

The engine was recently pulled to fix many oil leaks of nature Im not sure, during this process the coil was replaced (bosch) and the spark plugs and wires and possibly the cap<---- will verrify, is it possible for the timing to be dissrupted during this process?

We have learned from this forum that w/ the car running at idle to open oil cap and if engine idle drops then u have a good vaccume system w/ no leaks? kind of rudementry test I know. have tried this and idle drop way down, also almost every vacume tube on this thing is plugged??? very Jerry Rigged and frustrating.

Any help would be appreciated. I know were just scratching the surface on this and have asked many fundemental questions to which answers I could find elsewhere in this forum, just am running out of time he might be fired soon due to being late to work (wife has to pull him down the road to compression start)

thanks again ryan

Ed Hughes

Who pulled the engine, and what did they do? Did the problem start then? If so, you need to check everything they touched. Timing would only be changed if dizzy was pulled. I'd talk to whoever had the engine out.

Amber Gramps

welcome, but dang!

ivangene

I didnt read that word for word, but if it starts on compression and not via the key, how can that be timing?

I also would suggest a trip to a good mechanic - in the long run it might cost less and get fixed quicker.

so it turns over fine, runs on the road fine after running? Have you pulled the plugs and looked at them for color (sandy, black, muddy) how fast does the starter turn, how charged is the battery, do you pump the throttle at key start, have you tried starting fluid? Any back fire or intake pops? Lots of questions lets try and help

Ed Hughes

They need to start from square one. Check it systemically. No magic answer.

Amber Gramps

Where is clive?

I'd question the battery, starter, and proper distributor cap placement first.

It sounds electrical

marrott01

Thx for the checklist, it has been to a mech to have the permatune tested for would not start after engine was replaced. mech stated that he believed to be in good working order, found some corroded wires and replaced, yet the mech didnt know where the yellow wire from the starter went, thats where i was called in and found that it went to the CSV, SO.. high dollar Porsche tech didnt really earn his keep, seems a good CIS tech is hard to find in Utah .Started rough when he picked up, drove home bout 20 min away, would not start next morning.

The car is being compression started in 30 or less degrees so idle is not great and actually not existant till the car is warm, he has to give throttle or it dies. then due to the idle screw being adjusted (I think) the car idles at about 2000 rpm.

The throttle has been pumped while the key is being cranked and also no throttle while cranking. The mechanic said that he had the most response to start w/ about 1/4 throttle, Starting fluid has been sprayed into the pop off valve and no start, just sputter. Yes my friend says that it has been backfiring on start, Thats why we were thinking of disassembling the WUR

marrott01

sorry posted on accident, we were thinking of disassembling the WUR to see if it is stuck closed because we believe it to be running lean, (white smoke), but its my understanding to not tear down until i have my FP guage.

thx again

marrott01

Also, the battery is fully charged and starter is cranking strong. the plugs are brand new and upon inspection noticed no discoloration just doused w/ fuel.

psychoideas

I wouldn't disassemble anything (Stephanie)

Wait for the fuel pressure tester and go through it bit by bit.

Fuel pump stays on?? Dangerous.

No fuel pressure regulator?? Do you mean Fuel Accumulator?? If so, that's needed.

There's nothing much to see in the WUR however, in saying that, I did have a blocked screen in mine but discovered that by doing following the testing procedure.

PM me your email and I'll send you all the stuff that I have on the CIS system.

Cheers,

Frank

Ed Hughes

Sounds like your "mechanic" hosed it up pretty good. Again, what was removed to "fix oil leaks". Any number of things could have not been back correctly, or broken after all these years.

marrott01

Maybe im mistaking about the fuel pressure reg., his diagnosis? has fuel accumulator,Fuel pump stays on not sure why but maybe permanently jumped because no relay? or air sensor position? not sure what oil leaks were fixed but were on the rear of the engine and i believe entire Cis was removed and possibly intake manifold-will clarify a.s.a.p., have checked to see if screen was clogged and clean as a whistle. Thx for all ur contribution- ryan

marrott01

Thx frank for all the good info! Ya the red relay is missing only 2 black relays in trunk and 1 black relay in engine bay, excited to read that the firing order may be reversed due to mis print in the bently, but would the car be able to compression start if was totally reversed? The distributor ( ignition) was removed when engine was removed but the marks placed on the block and distributor before he removed line up so could there still be an issue? Will have all weekend to work on car so i will keep u updated. Thx.

marrott01

Ed - The oil sending unit for oil pressur guage was leaking aswell as the oil cooler and thermostat, the owner says the entire cis system was removed as well as the intake manifold. The car ran well before these leaks leaks were fixed.

Driver8

Johnny-5