Shannon123

Hey guys.....been shopping for a long time and while I've been all over the place with respect to what I want, I think I am pretty close to knowing.

1. I want a driver.
2. I want turbo look or wide body
3. I could care less about having a turbo engine.
4. Not that concerned about the 'purist' aspect of having a P-car (at least my driver !)

With this in mind, I've narrowed down my daily driver search to something like this one posted on Autotrader.

Here are more of the specifics on the car

I'm curious what you 911 fans would price something like this or comparable car at. The car above is of no interest to me since its RED and thats not my thing, but I am very interested in the styling etc.

Thanks for any help on this topic.

Makmov

Are you looking for a Cab? There has been quite a few M491 cabs for sale lately. They don't bring the money a coupe does I am quessing in the mid to low tewnties.

You have to make sure it is a real turbo look car though. Some have been dealer or modified after the fact.

A real M491 will have all the turbo stuff, wheels, brakes, suspension and was about a $17k option. There wasn't a whole bunch of them built.

A M491 clone isn't worth as much, teens, even if it was done nicely, but will never be worth as much as a nice unmolested non-turbo look SC.

If you are looking for a Cab that should make your life easier as there are a lot more Cabs and Targas around than coupes.

TroyN

I'd say maybe $18k-19k because it's got reasonable mileage but is not a real wide body. Good luck in your search!

raspberryroadster

agree-seems high for shop modified turbolook vs. from the factory (am assuming those are steel flares, cause if they are not for sure price is out of whack & also assuming this "resto job" is a result of owner's desire & not a crash, which is often the case).

i think for this price - a "from the factory" turbolook is attainable....and if you download PET 7....you can do your own VIN searches to confirm authenticity/original option codes.

you should know that the price they are asking for this car is now not far from
this car (and VIN does confirm authenticity as 92 America roadster)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-...item2c56f07cf9

unconfirmed but guy who was interested in my wtl cab last month told me he passed on the white cab, but car was attainable for under 30k. it has been on e-bay for months now.

Shannon123

Thanks for the feedback...'so far',

I guess what I tussle with in my mind is this.....why not get the car that has had turbo look or widebody look added to it rather than ante up the extra for a 'real' m491 when my intentions are for this to be daily driver.....at the end of the day, I have the 'turbo look' and the devaluation is going to happen anyways since I'm driving it. I might was well get something thats going to 'devalue' from a lower starting point ! Additionally, the vast majority of people who view the car would not know if its real or not ! I'm pretty sure I'd be kidding myself to think that after driving the car (m491 or non factory turbo look) I'd not lose money. Frankly, it seems like a large number of people buy these older P-cars and don't enjoy them frequently enough......

Thanks again for the pricing thoughts.....so far they have been pretty much in line with that I was thinking.

Makmov

a real M491 is more than just the look, remember.

Some flairs and turbo wheels doesn't make it a good M491 clone. There was a number of suspension and brake upgrades with the real M491.

If you can buy the car right, by all means, if it speaks to you, get it.

I don't think they are going to devalue much more than they are right now. However, a M491 clone will always devalue more than a real one or a stright up non M491 car will.

I will toss this out there as well. If you are looking for a daily driver and you have 25K to spend you can get a really nice example of a 964 which will be a better car to drive - particularly daily. It has more power, and modern creature comforts (Power Steering, Power brakes, hydrolic clutch, an AC system that generally works pretty well, better riding coil spring suspension and AWD if desired), not found on the earlier SC/Carreras.

I enjoy my 964 daily, I am not so sure I would an SC/Carrera.

raspberryroadster

valid points.....MAKMOV also has a good argument re the 964 series but, certainly imo properly sorted 911 would be great dd as well.

are you also tracking the prices/cars on pelican??
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-widebody.html

will make 1 other comment...(& my last 2 cars have been cabs but not dd's).
for daily usage coupe might be better, tighter, easier to keep cool, easier to secure, etc.)

Ed Hughes

If I were looking at a car that had fenders added, I'd price it out as you would an unaltered body, and subtract $2000.

Shannon123

RE: 964, I'm pretty much hooked on the 930 style and the coupe seems to be what I am leaning towards, although a Cab might work....targa's are definately not me.

I have seen that car advertised for a very long time (maybe not pelican, but elsewhere here and there). Something about that car (outside of the red color I dislike) that just doesn't look right to me.

I think the argument about m491 de-valueing less than SC widebody is probably valid.

That does bring up another question, perhaps a bit off-topic, but I'll throw it out there anyway. WHAT IF ? I bought a 930, but drove it like an old lady ! Am i asking for trouble since these cars need/ want to be driven at higher rrrr's now and then.....or can you get away with not spooling them up (often) and still have reliable driver ?

Makmov

There are 964 factory widebodies.

Don't get me wrong, I was hooked on the 930s too and almost bought an SC. It is just a very raw driver compaired to the 964.

WHAT IF, turbos are just asking for it generally speaking. Not only mechanically, but just driving one has caught a whole lot of drivers out.

Here is the problem with them.

They have turbo lag, and you are driving around in a corner and you think I can go just a little faster, just a little faster and BANG! turbo kicks in and a billzillion horse powers unlease a split second and the tail wants to come around on you. First instinct is to let off the gas... WRONG, that will just toss you into a spin which always seems to be headed toward the nearest tree or telephone.

I am not saying the car is dangerous, but taming an old turbo 911 is a bit of a black art.

Mechanically, they are just trouble. More things to go wrong with them and are not quite as bullet proof as a NA car.

raspberryroadster

driving any car with forced induction "normally" (ie without going WOT on a regular basis) will likely only make the car last longer i should think. engaging forced induction does create extreme heat & that is stressful on the internals.

the only thing i am not sure about is compression ratio in the 930 vs. 911.
i do know the 930 has a lower compression ratio than 964 carrera which actually makes the latter little quicker from the get go for city driving.

you might want to post up new question & let "those that know" provide opinions here & on turbo forum

Makmov

The 964 has almost stupid compression for a production street car for that era, pushing almost 12:1 - and eleven and a lot a change.