mBot

Hey guys;

Noob here, and am in way over my head, so be gentle New to Porsche, but not to cars...........current "fun" car is an '05 VW Passat 1.8T/AWD that's modded up and I've had fun with, and am now ready to move on. 3yr old daughter wants a convertible, but I like doing a DE event every summer, which makes that awkward. Was considering a Saab 9-3 / BMW E46 Convert, but that rules out the DE event, as they don't have permanently affixed roll protection.

Then I thought about a mid-80s 911 Targa.........which should offer most of the "convertible" feel while still having the requisite roll-protection to satisfy the DE safety inspectors, the rear-seat for the kiddie, and the go-fast fun for me

The car will be a summer-only, weekend driver......probably not even in the rain, non-commuter. < 3,000 miles a year.

With $15-Grand to spend (approx, I could go slightly higher if needed), I can get into an 84-87ish 911 3.2 Targa. I know that watching for undercarriage rust and prior collision damage, poor re-paint, and getting one with some records is very important. Other than that, I've got no idea what I am dealing with. I'd have any potential car inspected by someone who at least knows European cars, preferably a Porsche Guru.........

What kind of issues should I watch out for? What kind of common issues should I be prepared for? I realize the car will be nearly 25 years old..........Is this something I can maintain for $1000-$1500 a year (Aside from something like a re-upholster or repaint)? I don't know anything about air-cooled cars, how long they last, if they have interference-engines with timing belts, at which point the motors typically get tired and require a rebuild, etc. What's a motor rebuild or a clutch going to cost? How many miles (without a full restoration) is too many?

Am I just buying into a money-pit here, or is this something that I can buy, drive a little each year, and not hemmorhage money into? FWIW, I drive pretty gently at DE events, and I don't beat on my cars. Just a nice spirited drive through the countryside on a Sunday afternoon

Any thoughts appreciated.........

TIA! Ben

Peter Zimmermann

https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...immermann.html

mBot

Fantastic info, thank you!

ivangene

where are you located - and welcome to the forum, post any potential candidates for review/comment by the group

w00tPORSCHE

A well maintained 3.2 liter flat six engine is a very robust engine that will keep going well past 200K. Get a car with a good service history and get a full PPI including compression/leakdown. Please get Pete Z's guide to buying 911's (excellent read and is a must for any potential buyer) which highlights changes per model year, talks about potential issues with high mileage vehicles, how one can get falsely reassuring values on leakdown tests just to name a few. SPend time with the search tool on this forum (newbie seeking advice may be a good way to initiate a search). The car should not be a money pit. WHat will cost you is a gearbox with worn out synchromeshes which will cost quite a bit to rebuild. There are some very good cars out their that is just not selling due to the current economic climate. So good luck. '84 through '87 is the 915 gearbox (cable clutch, classic feel all the way, needs more TLC with gear shifts) and '87 through '89 is the G-50 (smoother more modern feel, easier to shift although I have no experience driving one). G-50 cars may carry a slightly higher premium. If you drive a well cared 915 you will either love it or just hate it. If you drive a poorly cared 915 you will absolutely, positively hate it. Use PCA wbesite, RL, pelican parts, craig's list and autotrader.

I am a newbie myself albeit a well informed one (atleast I would like to think so) thanks to hours of grazing RL, Pete Z's book and other very good coffee table 911 books. Good luck.

mBot

I'm located in Frankfort, MI.

A friend of mine, who is an Indy VW tech a few states away, keeps emphasizing how expensive the engine rebuilds are in these cars. Looking online, reading other threads here, Pete's Book, etc show that it could cost $8-10k to do a proper engine rebuild. OK, THAT scares the crap out of me. That's definitely not in the annual budget But seriously, why all the discussion of rebuilds? Is this a motor that needs a rebuild every 100k, or just in instances of abuse, neglect, Pulled Studs, etc? Or is it because of the age of the cars that they're needing it? From your post (wOOt), it appears as though they're robust, I'm just wondering why all the discussion about rebuild costs, that's all.

I will order the book, I am just wondering in the meantime

I'd have a proper PPI done............and if the engine needed work, I'd walk away unless the price compensated for it.

Adams

Don't let that rebuild 'number' back you off.

I know when you read about these big-ticket rebuilts, it starts to seem like A LOT more common than reality. That's because the most likely people to post on rebuilds are those who've just had one. The other huge majority haven't, so they don't ever say "my car's running fine again today".

Next, the big scary rebuild dollars would be the case with most any high end car. I shudder to think what it'd cost to rebuild my wife Lexus hybrid, or my Fcar flat 12. (In fact, I don't like to think about it at all!) So try not to enter the market with that big ol' scary number like an axe hovering over your head.

YES these are reliable cars, built to withstand lots of miles and hard use. And YES if abused and needy, they'll cost you. I'd imagine virtually all the members here feel the reward far outweighs the risk.

Learning all you can and looking at what constitutes a 'good vs bad' car is wise. So is a PPi from a trusted technician. I believe you'll greatly enjoy the 911 experience.

mBot

Sweet, that makes me feel a whole lot better..............so does knowing that, if I had to, I could always put in a good-running used motor and sell the old core, which might bring the repair cost down to a (net) of around $5-Grand, which would be more manageable.

PPI for sure!

I agree, too, you never hear about the ones that are running fine............ My DD is a F250 PowerStroke pickup........the cost of rebuilding one of those is huge money, too, and the only people who ever talk about it are the few guys who've had them fail. The other 99% never complain

w00tPORSCHE

That is why a good service history/records will tell you about it's past and the PPI will shed light on it's
present condition. I would not touch a car without a service history unless you get it at a very good price. There will always be small stuff here and there to fix on a 25 year old car but that will certainly not break your bank. IMO, you certainly do not need a heavy wallet to support the running costs on a good SC or 3.2.

mBot

....I also might consider a 944 with the removable moonroof.......it's got quite a bit of "sunshine" coming into the cabin. Hadn't thought about that until a friend mentioned it.

Peter Zimmermann

Just remember, 911s and 944s are more like apples and oranges. There are reasons why you can buy a "decent" 944, built in the mid-'80s, for a third, or less, money than a nice 1980-83 SC will cost you. And talk about service difficulty, sheeeesh. That sunroof might not seem as attractive after you've replaced the water pump, belts, motor mounts, clutch, shocks, steering gear, front control arms/ball joints...etc. Don't get me wrong, the 944 can be a lot of fun, but man, you must have service records for one, as well as access to the shop who has done the work, as well as access to a 944 specialist near where you live. Good service will be expensive, bad service even more so.

OttawaDave

What to watch out for in an 85 911?


Awesomeness. (though admittedly I'm a bit biased)...


You're in good hands here in this forum, so I'll step out of your way now. Good luck!

mBot

Thanks guys for all the warm, inviting, and helpful comments. This might work afterall Keep the comments coming, and I'll do the same!!

Ed Hughes

Just to set the record straight, $8-10K for a decent rebuild, if you do it yourself. Go to a pro, and it's $13K plus.

But, as noted, that is not a common issue for a car that is in good order and gets maintained.

User 4221

Peter, you for got the torque tube..... Other than that, you have it nailed.

I've owned a "cheap" 928. I spent >$22k to make a $8k car.