rockrimmon

Poudre Sports called just now to give me the preliminary report on the PPI for the 88. No bad news. A few minor things that they suggested could be fixed or upgraded.

The Good:
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Leak down test: No issues. Something about "all 4's and 6's - looks good" but I don't know how to translate that from Porsche speak to English yet. Does this mean anything to any of you?

Suspension: No issues found. Recent Bilsteins front and back.
Exhaust: No issues found.
Brakes: Rotors, pads, calipers all fine.
He mentioned a bunch of other stuff but I can't recall.

The Needed:
-----------------
1. Belts - Said they are a little old and recommends replacing. Isn't there just one main belt or is there > 1? I think he said $300 for parts and labor but not sure. Does that sound right?

2. Leaks/Drips: One minor drip near the "#8 main bearing oil return tube". He said not to bother with it. Said it was an o-ring? Said it was not worth it. Just let it drip a teaspoon each week. Owner already told me it drips just a bit.

3. Recommend changing the tie rod ends to turbo ends? Said not needed now but should be considered in Year #1. Not sure I heard this right either. $500+

4. Valve cover gaskets leaking just a bit. Not needed now, but not expensive to do.

5. Could use an oil change. Current owner uses Mobil 1 synthetic so 13 quarts of synthetic + 1/2 hour labor ($110/hr) was a little < $200. Does this sound right?

My wife and I are heading up tomorrow morning. Car will be up on the lift. We'll get the full report and I can post more here on Sunday. Owner's wife is out of town and her name is on the title so we can't legally swap $$ for car and title yet. May just get a bill of sale and leave $5000 in cash as a deposit until she returns next Thu. That would give me a week to get insurance, decide on whether to have any repairs done while the car is still there, etc.. and then come back up the following Sat to get it.

I'm more calm about this whole thing than I expected to be. I even slept last night. One more pic of bottom of engine.



Tom

Ed Hughes

Nothing out of line but their pricing. There would be two belts-fan and A/C. $200 seems steep to replace. I am amazed at what shops charge for oil changes, I have no clue as to whether that is going rate or not. The oil is probably 1/2 of that. The $500 for Turbo tie rods (an upgrade) better include a full alignment.

Are you mechanically able at all? None of the three projects listed above are tough at all, and with a little bit of help from your friends here and a book or two for reference, are TOTALLY within a DIYers reach, and would help you learn a lot about your car during the bonding process. You could replace the tie rods yourself and then take it for alignment and probably save a couple of hundred.

911Dave

Poudre Sports Car is a good front range shop. I've dealt with them in the past and would do so again.

All 4's and 6's - means 4% to 6% leakdown on all cylinders. This is good, and well within spec.

1. It's good to change the belts if they're old. You can easily do this yourself for the price of the belts - under $20. The owner's manual has the procedure in it and you'll need the tool that hopefully is still in the factory tool kit that is hopefully still in the trunk.

2. Minor leaks are common and expected on an aircooled 911 engine. See answer to #5 below.

3. Turbo tie rods are an upgrade that is never necessary. It can improve steering response ever so slightly, but in normal street driving you'd never notice it. You can do this yourself as well for about $150 in parts if you feel the need.

4. Valve cover gaskets come in a kit that you'll need next time you adjust the valves (every 15k miles). Don't do anything now, just wait until valve adjustment time.

5. Synthetic oil is notorious for causing oil leaks in these engines. If you change the oil and put a good dino oil in, like Brad Penn or Swepco, you may very well find the oil leak goes away on its own, as so many others have discovered.

Two of the best investments you can make when you buy a 911 are the following books:

101 Projects For Your Porsche 911, by Wayne R. Dempsey
Porsche 911 Carrera Service Manual 1984-1989, by Bentley Publishers

Those two books have all the step-by-step procedures for the tasks discussed above, and then some.

Sounds like a good, sound car. You will enjoy it!

Tango635

Folks around here say that 6% or less is good. As Ed mentioned, the stuff that needs repair is minor, and something you could definitely do since you say you are pretty good with a wrench.

This car would be at the top of my list. It needs nothing major. The AC blows cold. Most cars , like the one I'm in the middle of deal with, require AC repair/upgrade to the tune of $1000 and up. The paint looks really nice and the car just looks like it's been taken care of.

Good luck.

Tango635

Dave, your comment on #5 Synth oil. Is this from personal experience? I've read this is simply a myth, especially when talking about recent formulations. Not trying to start an oil discussion (oil war), just wondering if you have personally experienced this.

That said, I agree with your recommendations on oil. If i were to use synthetic in an older porsche, I would use the Mobil V-Twin 20w-50.

911Dave

Tango, a few years ago I went to synthetic oil and it made my oil leaks worse. When I changed back to dino, they got better although they didn't stop completely.

However, my comment was based even more on the many, many reports of this phenomenon on "that bird site" than it was on my own experience. I'm a believer.

But, even if it is a myth, most of the recent Mobil 1 formulations have been shown to not have enough of the ZDDP additive to adequately protect our older flat tappet engines. Brad Penn and Swepco are two of the few oils that do, so I would recommend the change to one of those for that reason alone. I've heard the Mobil 1 V-twin oil is good too.

salukijac

I think Dave covered every point pretty well. On the oil change topic, if you go with European Performance in the Springs they will charge around $100 for and oil change with Brad Penn. I had them do one change last year. The dealership here will charge you $200. I did my last oil change and at that time I went to a Dino oil and I also experience a decrease in leakage/drips. Find out what the previous owner used and go from there.

rockrimmon

Wow, lots of great input. Yes, I am very handy with a wrench. Meaning I have no problems rebuilding BMW motorcycle boxer motors and tearing a bike down to the bits and putting it back together [doing this right now on a 1981 BMW R80 G/S Paris Dakar model this winter) so have ALL the tools including wrenches, sockets, torque wrenches, etc..



Sounds like I should just do the oil changes myself. Seller told me later this afternoon that he had 14 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic that go with the car.

Belt changes - Just 2 belts. Alternator and AC. Seller also told me he had a spare set and keeps the spare alternator belt in the car.

Tie Rods - I've read about the "turbo rods" here but didn't know why someone would change. If the parts are < $200 and the labor isn't too hard I can do that and then take it for an alignment.

Oil. I do use dino oil on my old (1981 & 1993 BMW air cooled boxer motorcycles. They do leak more with synthetic from the engine. But I do use synth hypoids for the trans and final drives. So I do understand that discussion.

I'll have the full report tomorrow. The seller does have one manual, I'm pretty sure it's not a Bentley. It's in the picture below but I can't read the cover. Maybe a Haynes? I can certainly get the two books recommended.




Here's a shot of the toolkit. Looks nice but not sure it is complete or not:



I know he doesn't have the original air compressor but has a newer model still in the box that fits in the same place up front in the trunk.

Tom

salukijac

I don't have any experience with the Haynes but I do have the 101 Projects and the Bentley and I recommend both of them. The one in your picture is not the Bentley...could be the Haynes.

BTW, make sure you take the carpet completely off the trunk and make sure you don't have any corrosion or funny business going on there, especially near the battery.

logan2z

The one in the picture is a Haynes. A copy came with my car as well. It's garbage, throw it out and get the Bentley.

rockrimmon

Just placed an order for the 101 Projects and the Bentley from Amazon. The Bentley manual was a lot cheaper there. Bought an Excellence Mag at the bookstore this afternoon. Looks like a good read. I can put my 911 Buyers Guide to the side now.

Tom.

Tango635

There's also Wyane's Engine rebuilding book that is supposed to be pretty good according to some folks at Pelican.

ron mcatee

Tool kit looks to be complete. also, the strut brace provides better stability and keeps the body from flexing too much. good luck.

Ed Hughes

Waynes engine book is pretty good. There are definitely some errors, but I thought try were pretty evident. If you use it as a map, and think two or three steps ahead, so as to not paint yourself into a corner, it delivers on it's promise. I used it quite a bit my first build, and as more of a Clif notes this last time as I'd plan out my sequence of events.

These cars are very enjoyable to work on. You can just R&R most parts and have a great car. Or, you can do as many updates or upgrades as you want and make it a really wonderful car. No need for synthetic oil, it will most likely cause leaks. Brad Penn is a popular semi-syn that is recommended by many.

rusnak

Looks like you found a winner! Toolkit looks complete. Drop-kick the Haynes. Good call on the Bentley book. I'm not a huge fan of turbo tie rods because I can't notice much improvement with them. They are nice looking parts though.

You will have no problem doing the suggested repairs at home. If you get stuck, we'll help you out and you'll save a ton of dough.