whiteNSXs

Hi guys,
I have a 1989 911 3.2 cab with the factory alarm. According to the manual, the alarm is armed by the key locking outside the car. When it locks, the LED in the lock button will light up. My problem is, if I am sitting in the car, locking the door with the center console lock button will also arm it. Of course, when I try to start the car, the alarm goes off. So now, I have to start the car first, then lock the car to avoid setting off the alarm. My understanding is that the central lock button should not arm the alarm. Only the key can.
Any idea what is wrong?
Steve

dshepp806

I never even thought about that on my 89. Never, have I got in the car, actuated the central locking THEN start the car..mmm Will have to look into this.

Now surely I've cranked the car then actuated the locking system with no alarming results (other than that aggravating chime sound). But never the other way around.

What does the manual state?

Doyle

whiteNSXs

It is pretty standard for a lot of people. Get in the car, lock the door as a safety measure, then crank the engine.
The manual says, the alarm is armed by locking the door with the key. Also the central lock button will lock the doors when one presses it. To unlock using the same button, the key needs to turn to the on position.
So I hence run into the problem.
Intuitively, the central lock button should mean to just lock the doors but not to arm it too.
Steve

dshepp806

Will check this out during the weekend, on my '89. A quick glance at the schematics doesn't provide revelation (for me), just yet. It is clear in the Bentley Manual (970-37, central locking)) that there exists 4 signal points that are used by (sent to) the anti-theft circuitry (these points are noted for 1989, only) two of them are the GRN/WHT wires (signal sent from each side of the door lock motors) and two additional lines appearing at pins 7 & 9 (BRN/BLUE & BRN/GRN) of the Central Locking ECU that also head to the anti-theft system (where they come in I don't just yet know....). When one flips to the Anti-theft schematic, the only grn/WHT line I see is related to the headlamp/fogs relay...will have to further investigate this "notion".

I usually get in,...check that my firearm is where it should be,..crank the car and go.....once I discovered that pesky chime one hears (at least us audio engineers can !!) when the auto lock is activated, I never used it again,..unless driving in a section of town that seems to warrant tolerating it.

SO: I've never tried your protocol.

Will report back with further findings...right now, it looks like the 89 (alone) is a bit different than previous models...

...good one..............maybe some other '89 owners will chime, as well.

(your) Intuition aside...(now: my intuition), it may be that the central locking unit may very well ARM the anti-theft system, if actuated prior to cranking (key=off)...then you'd experience the encountered results in your situation. If this hunch is correct, it should be easily proven in my car, as well,...no? (although it doesn't seem practical.....)

Let's see,............


Doyle

dshepp806

BTW: has anyone out there have a schematic of the anti-theft box (internals).....quite important in making an assessment as to FULL operation of this circuit and it's relation to locking circuit?

Thanks,

Doyle

theiceman

makes no sense .. why would you want to arm your vehicle with you in it ? i think if someone were trying to break into your car and you are in it .. you have much bigger problems than an alarm can fix

dshepp806

Steve,

Here's the functional data (my tests) on my '89:

First off,..I would mention that the only time I EVER set OFF the factory alarm was when I once locked the car (setting the alarm system for monitor mode, I realized that I had not closed the bonnett , as it was being held by the mechanical hood latch. I walked to the front and simply pressed the bonnett closed and the ALARM GOES OFF,..a key insertion into the door handle lock to unlock the car silenced the alarm (it was then that I realized the alarm system has it's own horn, BTW: small beans, but still an FYI)...
THAT's the extent of my "alarming" experiences to this date.


Back to this AM's tests (while listening to Moving Pictures,....):

Standard: She's locked (armed) each nite...before lunlocking< I observed the flashing lite on the lock pin (as always) and noticed that the central locking (console) lite was NOT lit. ALL NORMAL.

I unlock the car, get in it,.close door. Without any key insertion to ignition, I depressed the cent. locking console button. She obliged by locking the doors and NOT illuminating ithe console lock button's lite. A quick glance to the left shows the door lock pin is down and flashing. This sounds like your "staging", right? (aside from luminary differences in your results at this stage).

If like yours, when I turn the key through it's clicks to start the engine, the alarm should sound, eh? The car started normally and remained locked. Central lock lite came on and doors still provided a flashing indication. I then cranked and on she comes....no alarm indications whatsoever...cent. lock lite remained on yet the flashing lite on door lock pin was NOT flashing. I then unlocked the c/l button and all was normal. THIS makes sense to me and provides just what you need for your sense of security.

As a grand finale, I armed the car and opened the hood from a semi-latched position and subsequently tripped the (nasty-sounding) horn.

SO: yes, it appears you've a problem (no news to you....especially in terms of "intuition") You appear to be correct. This will possibly require the internal schematics of the relevant unit. I need to study the Bentley a bit further.

Of course, the down & dirty would be to swap out the boxes/relays involved (I, however, find that boring and relish in understanding circuitry) And see what happens.

You never know about any connection point integrities, so some will require visual analysis. The internals of the anti-theft box would be no different than the DME board , IN TERMS OF SOLDER INTEGRATIES,..a reflow of a suspected solder joint can sometimes repair the issue,..but that's WAY upstream right now.....

I'll give it a view soon,..have you a Bentley Manual?

Patience is NOT a virtue.

Best,

Doyle

dshepp806

Ice,

I think he's stating that (to him) it makes sense to LOCK the car (NOT arm it) once inside,..then crank and go.......when he tries to follow this protocol, his alarm goes off. No way this is correct, it would seem,..and IS NOT how my '89 works.

I consider this good, in that it wouldn't call attention to the event forthcoming to any foolish carjacker from your's truly.

Something's up with his system, I think..


My best,

Doyle

theiceman

yeah I agree Doyle . I was questioning Porsches Logic . it would make no sense to arm the alarm when someone pushes that button.
I would also question the allarm system ..

dshepp806

The Bentley written content seems to deal more with the systems that have that key-lock (manual) approach. Schematics denote (very specifically): "1989: at 4 points on the actual schematics.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
I noted an interesting paragraph in the Bentley (909 ALARM SYSTEM) that states the following (and I preface this by saying I feel this related to the manual style):

"when activated, the alarm will be set off by opening the driver's side door, passenger side door or front hood, or by turning on the ignition switch".


...yes: "ignition switch",.....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Soon,

Doyle

dshepp806

"Ignition switch", they say? Frikin' how?

Time to study the prints.

I"D LOVE TO GET MY HANDS ON SCHEMATICS ON THE BOXES..........

Thanks, ICE.

Best,

Doyle

dshepp806

You'd want to know the proper signalling, to and fro regarding the anti-theft unit. Simple checks first, as there involves some relays and contacts switches involved.

As you state that when the car alarms, you simply crank it and all is well, right? It would seem that any of the switched circuits are doing their job within the anti-theft box, as you can clear the alarm.

Still,..all guesses until I can really study it. At home recouping from cervical surgery so can lend some time (at least to theories).

Should anyone else be looking at the circuit, I'd still like to know WHERE the following signals from the Central Locking System schematic (970-37)go to within the Anti-theft circuit (P970-58):

Anti-Theft Signal (2 of 'em)

Anti-Theft System (1989) (2 of 'em).................as these aren't "ID'd" as such on the A/Theft circuit..

further study abounds,..man: that schematic would be great,..come on,..somebody?

Best,

Doyle

dshepp806

It would seem that a flakey Alarm system relay would manifest in lighting related matters (only)...........

I can't imagine both door swtiches going flakey simultaneously..................................


Looking more to be Anti-theft module,..I'd at least remove the connector and have a look at the pins for integrity ..reseat it. It may (well) be that this baby is armed when you press that central lock before key insertion,..one can't very well open a locked door to test that (except for manual method),.....clearly when you insert key and crank, all is OK,................this leaves only my bonnett test to see whether the alarm system is, in fact, armed when the central lock button is engaged before key insertion. Will have the Wife participate in OPENING the bonnett, while I sit locked in the car...no key ignition...and see what happens..

fun....

Doyle


Again, mere speculation at this point......will study later.

Ed Hughes

Heck, I'd just stay clear of the neighborhood where you have to lock your doors as soon as you get in the car....

dshepp806

..or find/fix the problem....then you can feel safer if this protocol is required in your location


..................(which I think is what the poster is after here).


Doyle