Another Chain Tensioner/Ramp Question
02-18-2010, 11:40 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Another Chain Tensioner/Ramp Question
I have searched the board and cannot find the answer I am looking for...Upon acceleration I notice a knocking/clanking noise on my left-hand side, at idle and deceleration it goes away...prior to this happening I did the chain tensioner upgrade and changed my ramps as well...the lower left inside ramp was a bear to get on and I don’t ever think I got it to seat properly (when you look at it from the side the space is greater between the lower ramp and mounting pins than the space between the upper inner ramp and mounting pins/wall)...I took the chain cover off last night thinking the ramp had come apart and the clanking I heard was from the chain banging against it...to my surprise the lower ramp, although located a bit further from the wall, did not show any evidence of having been beaten by the chain to cause that noise. So my question is this: what are the actual tell-tell signs of a bad tensioner as opposed to a bad/loose ramp? If the tensioner failed would the ramps show evidence of chain marks? If the ramp was not seated properly, thus banging against the walls under acceleration, would the ramps show signs of this banging? BTW I bought the tensioner set used. I have a set of ramps on the way so that I can replace the lower left (inner) to see if I can get it to seat better. TIA for your replies
Oh, one more thing....if the clanking I heard was from a rod bearing etc. i would think that by now the engine would have seized up or I would hear funny noises at idle too?
Oh, one more thing....if the clanking I heard was from a rod bearing etc. i would think that by now the engine would have seized up or I would hear funny noises at idle too?
02-19-2010, 12:42 PM
#3
RL Technical Advisor
Hi,
Assuming that you are referring to your SC, do you have stock or pressurized tensioners?
Can you move the suspected tensioner? (in other words, is there any slack in it?
Both side chains should be tight at rest.
Assuming that you are referring to your SC, do you have stock or pressurized tensioners?
Can you move the suspected tensioner? (in other words, is there any slack in it?
Both side chains should be tight at rest.
02-19-2010, 12:56 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Tensioner is upgraed to the oil fed type (used)...the chain is tight as far as i can tell (look/feel)...at what position should I try to depress the tensioner, and using what? (finger/pry type device)...I assume I am looking for visual eveidence of the chain having been slapped around?
02-19-2010, 01:32 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
1. Post a pic of the top of the installed tensioner where its plunger contacts the idler.
2. Have you fixed the errant guide?
3. Is there any chance that you lost cam timing during tensioner replacement?
4. Post another pic of the end of the camshaft - be sure that the crank pulley is on Z1 for cyl #1.
2. Have you fixed the errant guide?
3. Is there any chance that you lost cam timing during tensioner replacement?
4. Post another pic of the end of the camshaft - be sure that the crank pulley is on Z1 for cyl #1.
02-19-2010, 07:22 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
1. Post a pic of the top of the installed tensioner where its plunger contacts the idler.
2. Have you fixed the errant guide?
3. Is there any chance that you lost cam timing during tensioner replacement?
4. Post another pic of the end of the camshaft - be sure that the crank pulley is on Z1 for cyl #1.
2. Have you fixed the errant guide?
3. Is there any chance that you lost cam timing during tensioner replacement?
4. Post another pic of the end of the camshaft - be sure that the crank pulley is on Z1 for cyl #1.
I have not messed with the errant guide at all
I zip tied everything so as to be sure there was no slippage
I will get a pic on the pulley on Z1 as soon as i get undressed (work clothes to wrenching clothes)
let me know if you need a better angle
02-19-2010, 07:46 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
It looks like your chain is not stretched - that's good. For the next pic, put the crank pulley on Z1 #1, but photograph the end of the camshaft. This will tell us if you lost cam timing.
You do realize that installation of the chain ramps requires the long end (pin hole to tip) must face (point to) the closest chain sprocket, right? If you have the 8th edition of my book this is illustrated on page 87.
Did you also do the right side tensioner/guides?
Are you positive that the chain guide mounting bolts pass through, and not under, all the guide mounting holes? You can verify this with a dentist's mirror and a mini-mag flashlight.
You do realize that installation of the chain ramps requires the long end (pin hole to tip) must face (point to) the closest chain sprocket, right? If you have the 8th edition of my book this is illustrated on page 87.
Did you also do the right side tensioner/guides?
Are you positive that the chain guide mounting bolts pass through, and not under, all the guide mounting holes? You can verify this with a dentist's mirror and a mini-mag flashlight.
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02-19-2010, 08:20 PM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
It looks like your chain is not stretched - that's good. For the next pic, put the crank pulley on Z1 #1, but photograph the end of the camshaft. This will tell us if you lost cam timing.
You do realize that installation of the chain ramps requires the long end (pin hole to tip) must face (point to) the closest chain sprocket, right? If you have the 8th edition of my book this is illustrated on page 87.
Did you also do the right side tensioner/guides?
Are you positive that the chain guide mounting bolts pass through, and not under, all the guide mounting holes? You can verify this with a dentist's mirror and a mini-mag flashlight.
You do realize that installation of the chain ramps requires the long end (pin hole to tip) must face (point to) the closest chain sprocket, right? If you have the 8th edition of my book this is illustrated on page 87.
Did you also do the right side tensioner/guides?
Are you positive that the chain guide mounting bolts pass through, and not under, all the guide mounting holes? You can verify this with a dentist's mirror and a mini-mag flashlight.
I studied the position of the ramps over and over before I began, i am pretty sure i got them correct
I did the right side as well..the right side was relatively easy (ramps that is) compared to the left, what made me go to the left side was the fact that when i had my wife rev the engine, while i was underneath, the rattling clearly came from the left side.
before i stuck the bolt through I made sure i could see the opening and that it was a straight shot through
02-19-2010, 08:45 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Here is the pic:
I studied the position of the ramps over and over before I began, i am pretty sure i got them correct
I did the right side as well..the right side was relatively easy (ramps that is) compared to the left, what made me go to the left side was the fact that when i had my wife rev the engine, while i was underneath, the rattling clearly came from the left side.
before i stuck the bolt through I made sure i could see the opening and that it was a straight shot through
I studied the position of the ramps over and over before I began, i am pretty sure i got them correct
I did the right side as well..the right side was relatively easy (ramps that is) compared to the left, what made me go to the left side was the fact that when i had my wife rev the engine, while i was underneath, the rattling clearly came from the left side.
before i stuck the bolt through I made sure i could see the opening and that it was a straight shot through
There isn't much light in your workspace, but it looks like the left cam is near where it has to be - that's good.
I think that your next step is to visually verify that all the guides are installed correctly (long end of both outboard units toward the cam on that side; long end of all four inboard units toward the intermediate shaft).
02-19-2010, 08:54 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
I've done a very large number of guide/ramp replacements, and find that they are very hard to hold while inserting the mounting bolts. Also, I'm confused. In order to do the right side you must remove the center pylon for the engine mount (which means supporting the engine and disconnecting the rear mounts), in order to remove the inboard, right side mounting bolts for cleaning and seal washer replacement. How could all that extra work make it easier?
can you sign my book
Last edited by jtilden; 02-19-2010 at 08:59 PM. Reason: added a pic
02-19-2010, 09:13 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
It's also easy to get a guide cocked to the side, so it's not in-line with the chain, by not engaging the mounting bolts properly, but I just can't figure out what could cause your noise. Is the right side cover off, as well? I'm thinking noise transfer, which can be tricky to hear without a stethoscope (I use a very long, very thin screwdriver, and place its tip in different places while listening at the handle end), but that doesn't help you now.
I guess that it's possible that you have a defective idler pulley, and its hanging up in positions that are different than the angle that your original tensioners were holding them at. If you don't find a problem with the guides you might have to order a pair of new idlers and put those in.
I guess that it's possible that you have a defective idler pulley, and its hanging up in positions that are different than the angle that your original tensioners were holding them at. If you don't find a problem with the guides you might have to order a pair of new idlers and put those in.
02-19-2010, 09:22 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
It's also easy to get a guide cocked to the side, so it's not in-line with the chain, by not engaging the mounting bolts properly, but I just can't figure out what could cause your noise. Is the right side cover off, as well? I'm thinking noise transfer, which can be tricky to hear without a stethoscope (I use a very long, very thin screwdriver, and place its tip in different places while listening at the handle end), but that doesn't help you now.
I guess that it's possible that you have a defective idler pulley, and its hanging up in positions that are different than the angle that your original tensioners were holding them at. If you don't find a problem with the guides you might have to order a pair of new idlers and put those in.
I guess that it's possible that you have a defective idler pulley, and its hanging up in positions that are different than the angle that your original tensioners were holding them at. If you don't find a problem with the guides you might have to order a pair of new idlers and put those in.
so we will see what happens after i re-install the left side ramps...if this does not work and I have to disassemble everything again...oh well...I have been looking for an excuse to do my first engine drop anyway
...i figure i will drop the engine...fix all the leaks...etc etc etc yadda yadda yadda...you know the rest
02-28-2010, 01:40 AM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
problem SOLVED!
Finally found the answer to the problem....the catalytic converter heat shield bracket had become cracked...and resulted in the chatter that I heard whenever I accelerated...thanks for all the input...here is a shot of the bad bracket:
