Everett43

Hi Gang,

I am considering, among others, the purchase of a 1988 911. the car is very low miles [~17K] but I am concerned about the "soft valve guide" condition of the 1987-1988 911s. Can anyone tell me what it costs [approximately] to replace these with the harder version? Does it entail a complete top end rebuild?

Thanks for any advice.

Everett
P.S...Happy [almost] New Year!

Amber Gramps

With only 17,000 miles on it you best just hang it over the fireplace mantle.
You won't have an issue with valve guides 'tell well into the future.

Honestly I do have more to say but I'm off to pismo in the car. With "17,000 miles, valve guides, and for sale" all in the same post I'd be pulling the spedo to see if it matches the build date on the car. Ya never know.

Everett43

Hi Douglas.....I understand your concern [pulling speedo w/17k miles].

The car apparently came out of a large collection but it is alarmingly
low mileage. I suppose the other consideration is whether or not the
car has dry seals, etc, due to lack of miles.

Everett

Mike Murphy

A 20 year old car with 17k miles is surely going to have some issues with dry rot, seals, etc. I believe valve guides would be quite a few thousand. Is the car in excellent condition? If yes, I would use it as a museum piece and go and find a 3.2 that's already had the guides replaced.

Everett43

Hi murphyslaw1978.......I understand your comment! I want a car that I can
drive on a daily basis and enjoy on the road! I only put about 3-4k miles per
year on a daily driver these days and it may be the case that this particular car
wouldn't lend itself to that without some large dollar outlays. The car does
appear to be in excellent condition. I've not, as yet, had a PPI done.

Ed Hughes

The requisite warnings are stated above. But, it sounds like valve guides aren't a known issue with this car, and you're just voicing concern? Keep in mind, not all Carreras have this issue, but the ones that did/do make it well publicized. Just like RMS on 996's; not all had it.

If it were me, and I had to tear an engine down for new guides, I'd surely at least go through the entire top end. The bottom end should be fine, unless there is a leak issue.

Everett43

Ed....Thanks. That sounds like good information and advice. You are right that I am just voicing concern as there are no known, to me at least, issues with this particular car.

911vet

I agree with the above comments. My 87 has 130K miles and doesn't burn oil. So you could have another 20 years before guides need replaced. I once thought mine were going bad (blowing some smoke at the track). I got estimates from $3000 to $12,000 depending on what I wanted done. If you want a full top end, plan on $8 - 12K. Just guides, you can find someone to do it for $3000 - $5000.

I checked my off-track oil consumption and it's 1qrt in 850+ miles. And that's a car that has 130K miles and has lived at the redline for the last year on the track.

From some reading I've done, the cars most likely to have guide problems are garage queens that are sometimes started and left to run while sitting. May not be accurate, but it's what some believe.

I agree with Doug... if they are saying the guides are known to be bad... that 17K miles is probably a lie. It's super easy to change the odometers on these cars, so you should verify the mileage before paying a premium for it.

I'd be concerned with dried rubber from non-use. My car was driven 100K miles the first 10 years of it's life, then only 10K the next 10 years. So it mostly sat for the decade before I bought it.

Nearly every issue I've had has been due to bad rubber (rubber in the clutch fell apart, rubber fuel lines ruptured, rubber CV boot, etc).

Super low-mileage cars aren't necessarily less expensive or less maintenance. Not to rule out the car you're looking at (because it may be an absolute great find) but I'd just as soon buy an 80K mile car that's been on the track! In my mind, that's a car that has had regular maintenance, isn't dried up, and has proven itself.

Whatever 911 you get... you're gonna love it

Everett43

911vet......Thanks very much. The seller is asking a hefty premium for the
car. From the things you, and others, have pointed out I may indeed be better
off to find one with some miles on it that comes through a PPI in good shape.
This particular car has an asking price of 33.9K$ so I know I can buy many others for thousands less.

Ed Hughes

For $10k less than that asking price, you can get a superb Carrera.

Everett43

Ed.....Yes, I'm sure you are right! The 10K$ would go a long way toward any repairs, if needed, also!
I may look at another one tomorrow that is about 10k$ less asking price.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Good advice here,...

I'd simply add that the valve guide issue did not affect ALL Carrera's nor SC's.

The "guide problem" was twofold in nature:

1) Use of a soft guide material that exhibited higher rates of wear.

2) Inconsistent valve stem-to-guide clearances that resulted in premature high oil consumption.

Based on what I've seen over the past 25+ years doing all of our own head work in-house, fitment at the factory varied quite bit and some cars came with closer tolerances than others. The ones that came with looser clearances, simply used more oil than the others did. In fact, many of these engines left the factory with exhaust guide clearances outside of their own tolerances! The rest of these engines are truly superb and with excellent maintenance, will last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The only way to check guide wear is by removing the lower valve covers and measuring the side play in the assemblies. Conversely, oil consumption is an excellent indicator of guide wear (assuming the leakdowns are good).

A "permanent" repair is to install better (aftermarket) guides and fit them properly per spec. We've had excellent success using our own Phosphorus-Bronze guide materials and taking the time to properly hone the guides to fit so they last the life of the engine. We also use the factory Viton seals, NOT the teflon ones in the majority of installations.

Finally, the cost of replacing guides varies widely according to local labor rates so its difficult to offer specific

I hope this clarifies this issue and helps establish some perspective when considering the purchase of one of these fine automobiles.

Everett43

Steve...........Thank you very much for educating me on the valve guide issue. What does it cost to accomplish the "permanent" repair you allude to?

Everett

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Everett,

My pleasure, Sir.

Speaking only for myself, you would spend somewhere around $6K (parts & labor) to do this correctly.

whalebird

A 17,000 mile car can be a nightmare. I understand the attraction, but I think Steve summed it up nicely with the valve-guide issues. I would say that other things may become an issue. Rubber stuff like brake and fuel lines may become a problem with use. Consistant use and maintanance is critical to these cars.