Victory Motorcars / my view
11-21-2009, 02:38 PM
#18
Racer
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You obviously didnt read Peter's post.... those words were never mentioned...
I wouldnt buy a car there for the reasons Trader mentioned. there is obviously enough negative experiences documented that any knowledgable Porsche buyer would(or should) pause before purchasing from there...
my only point was that most of what we read is either 1. second hand knowledge or 2. from owners who never had a "good" PPI. They bought sight unseen off ebay.
VMC doesnt have a particularily bad (or good) reputation here in Houston.. Its buyer beware. Not every car they sell is bad. not every car is good... They are obviously dishonest.. but thats why we hate used carsalesmen in general.. isnt it?
If this place was selling toyotas and fords no one would give them a second thought...
dont buy cars off ebay (or any internet site unseen) and get a PPI from a place like Protechnik (http://www.protechnik.com/) and your going to be ok 99% of the time regardless of who the seller is...
I wouldnt buy a car there for the reasons Trader mentioned. there is obviously enough negative experiences documented that any knowledgable Porsche buyer would(or should) pause before purchasing from there...
my only point was that most of what we read is either 1. second hand knowledge or 2. from owners who never had a "good" PPI. They bought sight unseen off ebay.
VMC doesnt have a particularily bad (or good) reputation here in Houston.. Its buyer beware. Not every car they sell is bad. not every car is good... They are obviously dishonest.. but thats why we hate used carsalesmen in general.. isnt it?
If this place was selling toyotas and fords no one would give them a second thought... dont buy cars off ebay (or any internet site unseen) and get a PPI from a place like Protechnik (http://www.protechnik.com/) and your going to be ok 99% of the time regardless of who the seller is...
Last edited by Brads911sc; 11-21-2009 at 02:54 PM.
11-21-2009, 03:30 PM
#19
Track Day
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VMC doesnt have a particularily bad (or good) reputation here in Houston.. Its buyer beware. Not every car they sell is bad. not every car is good... They are obviously dishonest.. but thats why we hate used carsalesmen in general.. isnt it? If this place was selling toyotas and fords no one would give them a second thought...
If this place was selling toyotas and fords no one would give them a second thought... I suspect the local indy Porsche repair shops don't get much Victory feedback because they sell most of their cars on the internet.(the cars leave town and when things go bad the new owners don't drive 'em back to Texas)
To quote from your post "they are obviously dishonest". What more is there to say?
11-22-2009, 01:58 AM
#20
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I looked at the EBay response from buyers and it is 100% positive. This does not indicate that they have a high rate of problems—at least not from EBay sales. I have no knowledge of them via personal contacts. The reports I may have read would lead me to use caution and be knowledgeable in dealing with them, but that is a good rule to follow with any deal.
HOWEVER, having bought a few used cars, aircraft, motorbikes, and watercraft from individuals during a half Century, my opinion is definitely—let the buyer beware--. Ethics appear to be in a special category when it comes to selling a used car and let me tell you, airplanes are worse.
This does have an interesting other/second side to the argument. Is it an ethical obligation to:
1. Be honest when selling/trading a car to the dealer?
2. Point out the reality to the seller, of a buy that is extremely under priced, by the seller?
3. Detail on paper an honest list of known problems for an item that you are selling?
My own answer is:
1. Yes
2. At times, depending upon the seller and the situation.
3. Yes
#2 brings a couple of situations to mind. The first was a VW bug for $100 being sold by a couple that had run out of drug money. I took the car for $80. An older woman was selling an airplane that was apart that her husband had in the garage for years. I advised her it was worth twice as much as she was asking. She responded that she wanted it gone and if I removed it the next day it was mine at her advertised price. Another older woman took the money for a Triumph TR3 that was above what she was asking and appreciated the honesty and the money.
If you can not turn a wrench and do not know the vehicle type, you are at risk--- even with good advice and inspection. And newer is worser.
Concluding: I bought a Jeep 4x4 3 weeks ago that had some of the problems presented by the seller. Tranny oil leak, balky tranny, scratched paint under the unwashed dirt and a rattle in the cat. Undetected by me, due to low tire pressure in all tires was a front end rattle. The rattle was solved by one U-joint and $20 of sway bar bushings. ($1000 repair quote from a shop). Tranny pan nuts were loose and that solved the leak, and some tranny additive solved the shifting ($350 repair from a shop). Part of the “steal deal” was that smog was my problem—it passed.
So we win some and loose some. But cheap will reduce your exposure. If you are wrong, it is less pain. And when you do well, you have leveraged yourself just like Wall Street, kinda.
HOWEVER, having bought a few used cars, aircraft, motorbikes, and watercraft from individuals during a half Century, my opinion is definitely—let the buyer beware--. Ethics appear to be in a special category when it comes to selling a used car and let me tell you, airplanes are worse.
This does have an interesting other/second side to the argument. Is it an ethical obligation to:
1. Be honest when selling/trading a car to the dealer?
2. Point out the reality to the seller, of a buy that is extremely under priced, by the seller?
3. Detail on paper an honest list of known problems for an item that you are selling?
My own answer is:
1. Yes
2. At times, depending upon the seller and the situation.
3. Yes
#2 brings a couple of situations to mind. The first was a VW bug for $100 being sold by a couple that had run out of drug money. I took the car for $80. An older woman was selling an airplane that was apart that her husband had in the garage for years. I advised her it was worth twice as much as she was asking. She responded that she wanted it gone and if I removed it the next day it was mine at her advertised price. Another older woman took the money for a Triumph TR3 that was above what she was asking and appreciated the honesty and the money.
If you can not turn a wrench and do not know the vehicle type, you are at risk--- even with good advice and inspection. And newer is worser.
Concluding: I bought a Jeep 4x4 3 weeks ago that had some of the problems presented by the seller. Tranny oil leak, balky tranny, scratched paint under the unwashed dirt and a rattle in the cat. Undetected by me, due to low tire pressure in all tires was a front end rattle. The rattle was solved by one U-joint and $20 of sway bar bushings. ($1000 repair quote from a shop). Tranny pan nuts were loose and that solved the leak, and some tranny additive solved the shifting ($350 repair from a shop). Part of the “steal deal” was that smog was my problem—it passed.
So we win some and loose some. But cheap will reduce your exposure. If you are wrong, it is less pain. And when you do well, you have leveraged yourself just like Wall Street, kinda.
11-22-2009, 11:11 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yeah, yeah I was waiting for that one 
But I have no experience with MM. A similar deal with them, bad press etc..... on all the forums. If I ever visit them I'll ya'll know.
Make no mistake, I didn't buy a car from VMC, I did not do a PPI or drive all the cars there either. I was simply giving a fair and objective opinion of what I did see with my own eyes. Something that many folks would like to do but don't necessarily have the time or means. I simply hope I answered some questions that others may have had over the years. I stand by what I said and encourage people to do the same before jumping on a negative bandwagon based on hearsay.
BTW - If I were ever to consider a MM engine, you better believe I'll go there and do my due diligence first. Of course, I would just build my own so I would know who was to blame for either success or failure. But that's just how I roll
But I have no experience with MM. A similar deal with them, bad press etc..... on all the forums. If I ever visit them I'll ya'll know. Make no mistake, I didn't buy a car from VMC, I did not do a PPI or drive all the cars there either. I was simply giving a fair and objective opinion of what I did see with my own eyes. Something that many folks would like to do but don't necessarily have the time or means. I simply hope I answered some questions that others may have had over the years. I stand by what I said and encourage people to do the same before jumping on a negative bandwagon based on hearsay.
BTW - If I were ever to consider a MM engine, you better believe I'll go there and do my due diligence first. Of course, I would just build my own so I would know who was to blame for either success or failure. But that's just how I roll
11-23-2009, 10:27 AM
#22
Its been well documented that they wont release the car until after you give them a positive ebay rating and that before eBay changed the system they had a lot of bad comments retracted when they basically strong armed people into hush money
11-23-2009, 11:38 PM
#23
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Its been well documented that they wont release the car until after you give them a positive ebay rating and that before eBay changed the system they had a lot of bad comments retracted when they basically strong armed people into hush money
11-24-2009, 10:10 AM
#24
Do some searching on this site, on pelican and on road fly and you can read the stories from people who bought cars there who got hush money or were strong armed into either removing their comments or giving them a positive rating.
11-24-2009, 11:22 AM
#25
It is quite simple. Where there's smoke, there's fire. The guy uses strong arm tactics when people complain about the car being mis-represented. Example? When people post their experiences on public forums and then receive letters from VMC's attorneys.
Mis-represented? Stating the car is flawless and a body/paint guy will find no flaws with it. Then, upon inspection by the buyer, obvious impact damage is found. How is that not mis-representation?
If you don't mind giving the guy your hard earned money and being yelled at when trying to negotiate, then go ahead and give him your money.
Mis-represented? Stating the car is flawless and a body/paint guy will find no flaws with it. Then, upon inspection by the buyer, obvious impact damage is found. How is that not mis-representation?
If you don't mind giving the guy your hard earned money and being yelled at when trying to negotiate, then go ahead and give him your money.
11-24-2009, 11:44 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
There are plenty of uninformed people to give them business, and apparently, MM as well. I think Scott C sums it up well: Where there's smoke, there's fire. Too many tales for the informed buyer not to steew clear.
I also think the Wayne @ PP is the brunt of many threatening letters when a thread pops up slamming some commercial enterprise in the Porsche world, which is why he's quick to close such threads. Who has the time and money to deal with the soft underbelly of society, particularly in challenging times?
I also think the Wayne @ PP is the brunt of many threatening letters when a thread pops up slamming some commercial enterprise in the Porsche world, which is why he's quick to close such threads. Who has the time and money to deal with the soft underbelly of society, particularly in challenging times?
11-24-2009, 11:55 AM
#27
Racer
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Pricing Update on G50 Carreras
Car in my avatar sold yesterday $27.5k, in one hour, 1st caller, 1st time Porsche buyer. The car was all original paint and needed absolutely nothing. Can you imagine what would have happened to this guy at Victory?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
11-24-2009, 12:43 PM
#28
I, like many other posters here and on other boards got phony "Cease and desist" threats from someone claiming to be VMC's attorney. Threatened us with law suits if we didn’t stop posting about them on an anonymous web boards.
Yea I want to do business with them
Yea I want to do business with them
11-24-2009, 01:33 PM
#29
Track Day
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Thanks for the information.
11-24-2009, 02:05 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
VMC presents itself as a used Porsche specialist so ebay buyers should rightfully expect a full disclosure regarding problems with the cars they sell. It would be different if they were a general car sales company who sold a few Porsches along with many other brands. An independent PPI on their cars should really only confirm problems they have disclosed , with few exceptions. If they are Porsche people like the OP says, they know if anything is wrong with their cars when they sell them.
Ebay works best when Sellers give accurate descriptions of the items they sell, among other things. Its not like you are buying something face-to-face at a local flea market. A higher level of honesty and integrity is really required for longterm success. Imagine every seller lying about their items and ripping people off all the time? Ebay would cease to exist. Part of the reasoning behing the Ebay feedback system is to allow buyers to share their experience and to fairly reward or punish Sellers for their behaviour. VMC allegedly mettles with this system, underdandedly. These kinds of sellers are bad for Ebay, let alone the ripped off buyers.
Ebay works best when Sellers give accurate descriptions of the items they sell, among other things. Its not like you are buying something face-to-face at a local flea market. A higher level of honesty and integrity is really required for longterm success. Imagine every seller lying about their items and ripping people off all the time? Ebay would cease to exist. Part of the reasoning behing the Ebay feedback system is to allow buyers to share their experience and to fairly reward or punish Sellers for their behaviour. VMC allegedly mettles with this system, underdandedly. These kinds of sellers are bad for Ebay, let alone the ripped off buyers.