butzip

At the risk of starting a total @!#$ storm, I felt I needed to share this with my fellow enthusiasts.

OK, Like all of you out there, I've seen the ads and website and was very curious about VMC. I am a certified Porsche enthusiast and have owned dozens of Porsches from 356 to 996 and everything in between. I know my aircooled Porsches. I have also read all the negative press that VMC has received. I, like so many out there, read it and was turned off without any real experience or exposure to VMC.

Well can't say I've read every single posting on Pelican, RF or Rennlist, but I've read enough to see a disturbing trend. Not with VMC or it's management but with uneducated buyers. For the record, I have no affiliation with VMC, I am not from or have ever lived in Houston, I don't know Robert in anyway shape or form. However, I have some 900+ posts on Rennlist which is really my forum of choice given my limited free time. So ya'll know me, I'm not the owner masquerading as a RL member. And I'm not saying that happens, because I just don't know. OK, end of disclaimer.

My day job took me to Houston this week and I made it a point to go visit VMC for myself. And I'm glad I did. First of all, VMC facility is as represented. I recognized everything from the website and in fact, it's much nicer than I imagined. Robert is a true Porsche nut. If I were to own an independant Porsche facility, I would want it to look just the same.

I think a lot of the controversy I read in these forums about VMC buyers that don't know what they are looking at, don't understand Porsche as a car, put their complete blind faith in somebody else's hands and ultimately have unrealistic expectations from a 25+ year old cars.

Guys let's keep things in perspective.
1.) Robert is not restoring these cars and selling them as investment quality. Know this going in.
2.) This is his business, not sure why folks are shocked that he wants to actually make $$.
3.) all these ominous 'buyer beware' messages.....Um DUH, isn't that freakin' common sense. If you walk into a new car dealership, guess what, buyer still needs to beware. It doesn't matter if you are buying a TV, appliance or a car, not to mention an OLD car, you need to know what you are getting into, do your homework, use your resources. I've read so many threads the contain statements like "stupid me" and "like an idiot I trusted" and "the PPI missed really obvious things". If they were so obvious, why didn't you see it? How many people crying foul on these boards actually took the time to go to Houston see the car ahead of time speak to Robert go with the car to the PPI etc....etc.... I would be willing to bet very few and if they did and invested a little time and energy doing their due dilligence, they would have made a decision that better fits their expectations and wants. Buying sight unseen? That's your gamble and the consequences are yours to bare. It's a huge risk and should never be done.

The way I see it people want the Porsche experience. It's a wonderful thing. Buying an old car is never easy, it should be a relationship and if your not willing to put some effort forth, it will most likely fail and be expensive. Not unlike other relationships.

OK that all said, while I was visiting VMC this past Saturday, here was what I saw:
- a first class facility
- a total Porsche infused 'Man-space' Professional and welcoming.
- 30+ average to very good quality cars. there are some on the website that aren't in the showroom.... but, I don't find anything particularly shady about that. He's not trying to sell the same car twice or anything.....
- Interested and accommodating staff.
- Robert was taking excellent care of a 75+ year old man that flew in from Germany with his interpreter. He gave them his undivided attention for at least 2 hours, picked them up from the airport, paid for a car service to take them to the mall and downtown and back to their hotel for their return flight home the next day. They left satisfied and with a new Porsche.
- once they left he even put up with me for 1.5hrs just shooting the @!#$ about Porsches.

So why am I writing this? Because after my first-hand exposure to VMC, maybe not as a customer but as a conscientious Porsche enthusiast, I simply don't think all the negative press on VMC is fair or warranted. This is not a paid advertisement :-) I have nothing to gain from any of this. Does any of this guarantee a trouble-free experience? No, of course not, your 50% of the equation. VMC is simply providing a really nice venue for those wanting to get into an older Porsche. And there aren't too many of those out there. This is of course just my impression and my opinion. But keep in mind I am a 20 PCA member, with hands on knowledge of these cars and I say It's not a waste of time by any means to visit VMC.

Brgds, Peter

Dwane

Usually the people "bad mouthing" do not spend money on a PPI

Landmule

Classy of you to post this - and well written too. Thank you for taking the time.

Brads911sc

Like I said over on Pelican and got flamed for it... I live in Houston... Dont know anyone from VMC... but I do know the local experts at the best shops that are trackside assistants at PCA race events and who are routinely the go to guys on here and pelican.. that everyone who knows anything about Porsche cars takes their cars too for anything they want done right that they arent comfortable doing themselves.. (Protechnic is the most notable), but also EurocarWerk(close to VMC) and European Auto Techniks... I asked them all over the last two years if there was a huge problem with people bringing their cars in after purchase with major issues... and the answer was simply "no"... Do they over state the good.. probably.. so does a Porsche Dealer... Do they understate the bad sometimes.. probably... So does a Porsche dealer... But imho, they are not pushing a bunch of junk... I live here... if they were pushing junk... the local "competition" wouldnt be shy about stating so... Disclosure? I bought my car from a small european dealer in Boston, Mass. Just my .02... Get a PPI.

500

One thing they DO definitely do is play a shell game. Several times I contacted them about a nice '87 I first saw on eBay. First time I called, Mr. Neal said he had literally just sold it. OK, no prob. Well, the car stayed on eBay, and on their site so I called back several days later figuring the original sale had fallen through. I guess he did not remember me from before and fed me the exact same line: "I've just sold the car to a gentleman who walked in." The car stayed up on the site and I did not call about it a third time...

He did try to push me to another car that was not as desireable, but I felt he had not been honest with me and did not want to take it any further. The trouble is, when someone will lie about the little things, you never really know what else might be falsified. If mileage or service books have been manipulated, that would not necessarily show up in a PPI. I can't say I have any proof that VMC has ever done such things, but I do know that they were less than truthful on a minor issue. That was enough for me.

I'm sure you can find good cars as VMC, there may just be more tricky aspects to the deal that even a PPI may not fully reveal.

Brads911sc

I dont disagree. I am not saying they are honest. Like I said I didnt walk into their store when I bought mine... and I live here... that is telling by itself...
however, most of the "major" issues presented on these boards WOULD have been caught in GOOD PPI... period... the local experts have not said that they see a bunch of VMC nightmares... instead they have displayed indiference... its buyer beware regardless...

Ed Hughes

I disagree....too many incidents showing their apparent mastery in the art of detailing only for people to learn the truth afterward. Last year a friend looked at a former VM car that they buyer was selling out of necessity about a year after purchasing. The clear coat that appeared to have been shot on top of the paint with apparently no prep was peeling off in a number of places. When is the last time you've seen this on a 911?

The shell game is another common complaint. Let's face it, he is a good salesman.

salukijac

Very seldom people post when something goes right. With that said, when I was looking into buying a 911 I researched all of these dealerships. VM by far had the most negative comments posted against. On the other hand, the Truspeeds, Holts and JpFrazier of the world didn't have as many complaints combined as VM had by itself. There is something there...

I have the perfect example: My sister-in-law decided it was a great idea to go to school to one of these MediTech type schools. When I looked it up I found many complaints and also a class action suit against it. When I went to the BBB website I found they have a A+ rating...huh? Obviously something doesn't jive, but do you think that someone should ignore what's in front of them? I say not.

Do your research and act accordingly...but never ignore the signs. PPI, see the car, drive the car, do everything you can and then move on. It is all about making an informed decision.

six gun

And the beat goes on

butzip

Well, I really have nothing further to say on the subject. I just wanted to give my impression from my visit. There is a definite value in being able to see a bunch of cars at once. The alternative is to deal with individuals on a one by one basis which clearly takes a ton of time and energy. You'll most likely save a few bucks and you'll no doubt meet some colorful people along the way. I enjoy the hunt, but not everybody is so keen on it. Some would rather pay a premium and save some time and inconvenience. Regardless, the same rules apply, it's up to the buyer to make the right decision and ask the right questions. Even if some one is flat out lying to you, ultimately it will still be your problem if you buy it. Ideally, every seller would be 100% honest and 100% knowledgable about their car but the reality is this is rarely the case. There are so many subjective things on these cars that it is hard to always be on the same page. There are also clear and definitive rights and wrongs that when not disclosed, is simply being dishonest. The harsh reality is, if a seller wants to be a jerk, he dosn't have to tell you anything, but then again, you don't have to buy the car either. I don't remember the last time somebody put a gun to my head and made me buy a car. But I've certainly had cars that made we want to put a gun to my head. They were also made in Stuttgart but not Porsche.......

Hmmmm, I guess I did have more to say after all.....

dshepp806

Point made....that's all I need to hear,..don't care how pretty the place was nor how avvid his Porsche discussion was......

..little things matter (like lying)..

MDL

I called them prior to buying my car. I indicated that I was planning on flying out to Huston to see their inventory and possibly buy a car. The guy I spoke to on the phone could have not been more arrogant if he tried. I was not shy about telling him exactly what I thought of his attitude.

whalebird

I think it's a cool thing to balance the discussion with this thread. I have known a couple of cars from VMC and they were some of the most skillfully polished turds I had ever seen. I am not sure that they were misrepresented, but in both cases a PPI was not performed and that is by no means the fault of Victory.
Ebay is the worst place to buy Porsches(or any car) and Victory is deeply entrenched in the Ebay-esque car sales technique. A 911 is an easy hit-and-run sale to uneducated BUYERS.

iJeremy

I've personally had two different cars come straight to me from VMC for work, one an SC and the other a 930. Unfortunately the 930, while cosmetically outstanding...really near concours... was a mess mechanically. Needed a rebuilt turbo and fuel head, had a 7th injector and dial-a-death boost controller, the more we dug the more we found. Took quite a bit of $$ to get straight. The SC was quite average, mechanically it was a solid driver with the usual oil drops (which had been cleaned and not disclosed per the buyer's word from VMC) - the car was resprayed and looked good.

I'd say go into it with a sound head on your shoulders and you'll be ok. Get your PPI, no way around it. It's the guys whom buy into all the hype the sales team gives them and truely believe they are purchasing the grandest P-Car of all time that wind up being disappointed and posting their horror stories. If nothing else, they are good salesmen and will continue to sell, it's best to do your homework.

-Edit: BTW Peter, good of you to post your positives on them as well, it's best for people to always hear both sides of any story and there's certainly been plenty of opinions posted about VMC-

Trader220

Here are my questions for VMC.

Why do you buy stamped service books off of eBay and put them in your cars?
Why do you put service records in cars which represent service done on other cars?
Why do you play the shell game so often, as documented on this forum and others?
Why do you buy under several names on eBay and sell under others?
Why do cars appear on your website for months after they're sold?
Why do you need to pose as a satisfied customer on web forums?
Why do you deny knowing anything about common weaknesses in the various MY's when people ask if those issues were addressed?
Why do you have so many business complaints against you?
Why do you represent yourself as being in business for 27 years and 35 years depending on who asks and why not just tell people how many years VMC has actually been in business?
Why would you tell a national Magazine you sell 40 cars a month and have been for years while shipping most of them overseas?

The big question..Do you want to do business with a company who needs to answer those questions above based on the FACTs of their history?