New GHL equal length header/cat/muffler system
02-11-2002, 05:50 PM
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New GHL equal length header/cat/muffler system
Does anyone have any info on this system I saw in the new Excellence magazine? It looks like someone has finally come up with an equal length header (w/heat), 2 small cats, and a muffler with either a dual, or single out. They mention the cats do not decrease HP, but do not spec what HP increase they get. Looks like a great system, I've heard mostly good stuff about GHL. Will this be the answer to our biggest problem?? Extra HP, passing smog, & great sound?? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
02-11-2002, 07:09 PM
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A friend just installed this system on his 88 911
The best way I can describe it is astounding !!
The fit is better than factory, the sound is fantastic, not too loud and just enough rumble to let you know it is not stock.The bulid quality is nothing short of incredable.It comes with cat by-pass pipes that are easily swapped out.The most common response on hearing and seeing this system is WOW !
The best way I can describe it is astounding !!
The fit is better than factory, the sound is fantastic, not too loud and just enough rumble to let you know it is not stock.The bulid quality is nothing short of incredable.It comes with cat by-pass pipes that are easily swapped out.The most common response on hearing and seeing this system is WOW !
02-11-2002, 07:47 PM
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I just heard back from GHL & they state the following:
12 HP to the rear wheels (not flywheel) w/o cats & 10 HP with cats. No HP difference with single or dual out. No resonance & very pleasing sound. If they are too loud for my taste, they will build a quiter one at no cost. Lifetime warranty.
"GHL Performance Header Kit is a direct bolt-on and does not require any cutting or welding and dose not require oil line changes.GHL's 911 Cat.
Header Kit includes; Stainless steel headers, heat exchangers, performance catalytic converters, stainless steel performance muffler with a single 3-inch round tip and Porsche factory gaskets.The complete 911 Cat. Header
kit is $2,995.00 and $3,070.00 with a dual 3-inch outlet muffler."
Now I need to start saving my pennies!
12 HP to the rear wheels (not flywheel) w/o cats & 10 HP with cats. No HP difference with single or dual out. No resonance & very pleasing sound. If they are too loud for my taste, they will build a quiter one at no cost. Lifetime warranty.
"GHL Performance Header Kit is a direct bolt-on and does not require any cutting or welding and dose not require oil line changes.GHL's 911 Cat.
Header Kit includes; Stainless steel headers, heat exchangers, performance catalytic converters, stainless steel performance muffler with a single 3-inch round tip and Porsche factory gaskets.The complete 911 Cat. Header
kit is $2,995.00 and $3,070.00 with a dual 3-inch outlet muffler."
Now I need to start saving my pennies!
02-11-2002, 08:59 PM
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The GHL cat-header/heaters, with their short primary tubes, remind me a lot of the 993 factory headers. Using this comparison, I do hope they are at least as effective as the 993 units. As some of you may be aware, the 993 exhaust design is very difficult to improve upon for a stock (3.6L) engine.
Once GHL gets their C.A.R.B certification, I plan on having the cat-header/heaters installed in my car. Another possibility is converting the 993 exhaust system to fit, but this is more than a little complicated. Not free, either. Still, I haven't ruled it out altogether.
Here's an interesting thread, where Steve Weiner discusses what you should look for in an exhaust system for a Motronic controlled Porsche engine:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001376" target="_blank">Exhaust Thread</a>
The GHL system seems expensive on the surface, but is really comparable to a (for example) B&B system when you consider the cost of the two (2) performance cats. Also, GHL offers a 10% discount to rennlist members, knocking the price down some $300.
Once GHL gets their C.A.R.B certification, I plan on having the cat-header/heaters installed in my car. Another possibility is converting the 993 exhaust system to fit, but this is more than a little complicated. Not free, either. Still, I haven't ruled it out altogether.
Here's an interesting thread, where Steve Weiner discusses what you should look for in an exhaust system for a Motronic controlled Porsche engine:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001376" target="_blank">Exhaust Thread</a>
The GHL system seems expensive on the surface, but is really comparable to a (for example) B&B system when you consider the cost of the two (2) performance cats. Also, GHL offers a 10% discount to rennlist members, knocking the price down some $300.
02-11-2002, 09:49 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Randall G.:
<strong>.... when you consider the cost of the two (2) performance cats. .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Summit Racing sells Stainless performance cats for about $60.
How much less is a B&B?
Tom
<strong>.... when you consider the cost of the two (2) performance cats. .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Summit Racing sells Stainless performance cats for about $60.
How much less is a B&B?
Tom
02-11-2002, 11:27 PM
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Hey Tom,
I'm not an expert on quality or prices of performance cats, but $60 sounds very reasonable (especially considering that an O.E.M. cat. is around $1k). When I made my statement above, it was based loosely on what B&B sells their performance cat. for = ~$300.00. This cat. is installed between a shortened muffler and the exhaust tip (and, strictly speaking, is not smog-legal).
B&B exhaust prices for a 964, Performance Products:
Headers = $1545
Single outlet muffler = $1031
Total = $2576
Add the cost of two cats (B&B price) and arrive at $3176.
B&B exhaust prices for a 964, Tweeks:
Headers = $1250
Single outlet muffler = $1040
Total = $2290
Add two cats, arrive at $2890.
Of course, the cats. GHL sells with their system has to be of adequate quality to pass C.A.R.B.
I'm not an expert on quality or prices of performance cats, but $60 sounds very reasonable (especially considering that an O.E.M. cat. is around $1k). When I made my statement above, it was based loosely on what B&B sells their performance cat. for = ~$300.00. This cat. is installed between a shortened muffler and the exhaust tip (and, strictly speaking, is not smog-legal).
B&B exhaust prices for a 964, Performance Products:
Headers = $1545
Single outlet muffler = $1031
Total = $2576
Add the cost of two cats (B&B price) and arrive at $3176.
B&B exhaust prices for a 964, Tweeks:
Headers = $1250
Single outlet muffler = $1040
Total = $2290
Add two cats, arrive at $2890.
Of course, the cats. GHL sells with their system has to be of adequate quality to pass C.A.R.B.
02-11-2002, 11:44 PM
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Speaking of sport cats., here are some sold by FVD. A slight bit more than $60: 
<a href="http://www.fvdmotorsport.com/Exhaust2.htm" target="_blank">FVD Sport Cats.</a>
<a href="http://www.fvdmotorsport.com/Exhaust2.htm" target="_blank">FVD Sport Cats.</a>
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02-12-2002, 12:24 PM
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Yeah, whenever possible, I buy my parts from either Hendrick or Sunset Porsche. Dealers with extremely reasonable pricing. Also support Pelican whenever I can ....
Comparison pricing aside, the GHL system has some sort of intrinsic value to us Californians, when (if?) it receives C.A.R.B. approval.
Comparison pricing aside, the GHL system has some sort of intrinsic value to us Californians, when (if?) it receives C.A.R.B. approval.
02-12-2002, 01:08 PM
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I was at a D/E at Texas World Speedway in January run by the Lonestar Region PCA. I heard an unconfirmed rumour these new GHL pipes cracked in several places and needed welding on at least three separate occasions. Can anyone confirm this incident or have any similar experiences with these pipes?
02-12-2002, 05:40 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Randall G.:
<strong>A slight bit more than $60: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Some people call that the "Porsche Tax", I refer to it as "Prison Sex".
Now, I understand the economics of scale, in that if you produce a million widgets, the individual cost will be much lower than if you produce only a few. I also understand that 911's are not a huge market and parts production numbers are relatively low. That being said, I don't think there is a muffler in the world worth $1000, unless it is home delivered by the <a href="http://www.swedishbikiniteam.com/" target="_blank">Swedish Bikini Team</a>, and comes with a bottle of Glenlevit and a hot oil massage. This is price buggery pure and simple.
For example, a Borla muffler for my 911SC will cost $1100 to almost $1400, depending on the number of exits. A Borla cat-back system for my Toyota Tacoma is $369. Now, guess which one has longer pipes with more bends? Hint: It ain't the $1100 one.
There was an interesting discussion about sport mufflers on the Pelican 911 board last month. <a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55444" target="_blank">Here is a link to the thread on Pelican</a>
There are a couple of people who swear by custom made units with Flowmaster mufflers. Total cost around $150. Yes, I know it isn't stainless, but it could rust out and you can replace it 6 times and still be ahead of the game.
How do some of these places justify charging $500 for exhaust tips? <a href="http://www.jegs.com" target="_blank">Jegs</a> or <a href="http://www.summitracing.com/" target="_blank">Summit Racing</a> both sell chrome tips for $20-30 each, you can probably get them at your local muffler shop for a hell of a lot less than $250 each.
Sorry for rambling\ranting, but this subject really irritates me.
Tom
<strong>A slight bit more than $60:
</strong><hr></blockquote>Some people call that the "Porsche Tax", I refer to it as "Prison Sex".
Now, I understand the economics of scale, in that if you produce a million widgets, the individual cost will be much lower than if you produce only a few. I also understand that 911's are not a huge market and parts production numbers are relatively low. That being said, I don't think there is a muffler in the world worth $1000, unless it is home delivered by the <a href="http://www.swedishbikiniteam.com/" target="_blank">Swedish Bikini Team</a>, and comes with a bottle of Glenlevit and a hot oil massage. This is price buggery pure and simple.
For example, a Borla muffler for my 911SC will cost $1100 to almost $1400, depending on the number of exits. A Borla cat-back system for my Toyota Tacoma is $369. Now, guess which one has longer pipes with more bends? Hint: It ain't the $1100 one.
There was an interesting discussion about sport mufflers on the Pelican 911 board last month. <a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55444" target="_blank">Here is a link to the thread on Pelican</a>
There are a couple of people who swear by custom made units with Flowmaster mufflers. Total cost around $150. Yes, I know it isn't stainless, but it could rust out and you can replace it 6 times and still be ahead of the game.
How do some of these places justify charging $500 for exhaust tips? <a href="http://www.jegs.com" target="_blank">Jegs</a> or <a href="http://www.summitracing.com/" target="_blank">Summit Racing</a> both sell chrome tips for $20-30 each, you can probably get them at your local muffler shop for a hell of a lot less than $250 each.
Sorry for rambling\ranting, but this subject really irritates me.
Tom
