Randolph Racing

Hi guys, I am wondering if any of you 911 drivers were once 944 drivers. I currently DE my 944 and would like more power. I am looking at getting a 911 track car, yet I am concerned since everyone seems to comment on the difficulty in driving one based on the weight bias.

I could get a 944 turbo and run with the 911's but I like the "raw" apect of an early 911. I also think they tend to be more durable. Also, once I get used to it, can't I use that weight bias to my advantage?

Anyone have experience with both cars?

Warwood

Well I don't know about Drivers Ed, but as for Autocross, I keep asking my self why didn't I switch a long time ago. I really loved my 944, and it was a better all around automoble. But, the my 911 is so much more fun to drive. Also I believe that regardless of the level of preparation it is easier to make a 911 go fast because most of the homework on these cars was done 20 or 30 years ago. That is a lot of development that was done for you. Until only the last 2 or 3 years has the perfomance market really opened up for the 944's. But that is due in part to the fact that they are becoming almost dirt cheep.

Revis Rose
Bremerton WA

Jim Michaels

I was where you are about 12 years ago. I wanted more power than my NA 944 provided, and bought an '88 911 after test driving it (4 times!). The 944 made me feel like a pro driver on the track. They are so well balanced and forgiving that I felt very comfortable close to the edge. I could stay with most 911s in my group in the turns, but waved bye-bye coming out. Driving fast became so easy I wondered if I might have learned everything there was to know about driving. In contrast, I'm still trying to learn how to drive a 911 after 11 years (have moved on to the 964 version), and I continue to show those cars a lot of respect. On the track, the 911 had better braking as well as more power, but was less forgiving of small input errors. The 911 was also better at autox because it had less push and was easier to rotate into tight turns. As your comment suggests, the same oversteer that was scary on fast sweepers on track became a friend in the tight slow turns of autox. You will probably hear this frequently; I think the 911 is both more fun and more challenging to drive. You will be forced to start a new learning curve.

I should also mention that I also considered and drove a 944S2 and a 951 before buying the 911. They have the same wonderful balance as the NA 944 8-valve (and so does the 968), and are also easier to drive than the 911. 951s make relatively cheap, comfortable, and quick track cars, but are not the hot setup for autox due to turbo lag.

rfuerst

Here is my 2 cents on this-my first Porsche was a 1974-911S Targa that was in decent but not great shape that I purchased pretty cheap.It was a good car that I kept for a few years and then sold to a friend of mine.I then purchased a 1987-944S that I currently own,a very nice car,handles great,decent power,great AC,and just a nice daily driver.I then recently drove a 1983-911SC that a local owner was selling and I fell in love all over again,so much so that I put a deposit on the car and picking it up later this week.Words can not describe the feeling you get driving a 911,I just don't know what it is but it is special.These cars just seem to have a soul that bonds with the driver the longer you own it.I like my 944 but I love the 911.There is a culture to the 911 that is fun to be part of.Enjoy what ever Porsche you own,but the 911 is special!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Randolph Racing

rfuerst,

I am with you on that. I am particulary drawn to the "raw" nature of these cars. There is just something about them that defies explaination. From a technical standpoint, the rear engine design makes for a lousy race car, yet it has survived for forty years while all the front engine designs are long gone and worth pennies on the dollar. 911 drivers must be on to something!!!

Stuttgart951

Ah, a thread I can speak intelligently on. When I first started looking for my first P-car - I started looking at 911SC's. I knew what I wanted and I rarely found it... it was hard to find an SC that didnt need ALOT of work (4 years ago). I ended up getting my 951 because of that magical feeling past 3500RPM. The 944 series of cars are great amature track cars - an pre 993 911 will have difficulty holding its own against a well prepped 951 - but as others have stated there is just "something" about driving a 911 that you cant explain. I know this feeling well as I have driven 15 odd 911's from 1967 to 1992 and my 951 doesnt have it.

(braces for flame)

My 951 is an AWESOME car - fast, agile, and a real performer... but the 911 driving experience (for me) is just that... an EXPERIENCE!

I am currently looking to add a 911SC to my stable if that helps.

Singpilot

I actually have, as daily drivers, an '83 944NA and an '80 911SC. Both are Guards' Red, and both have Yoko AVS Sports on Fuchs' wheels.

I get to do everything from LA Freeway driving to commuting to Las Vegas in both cars on a weekly basis.

The usual P-car comments apply. The 944 is perfectly balanced from front to rear, you can choose which end to let drift in the turns if too fast. The 944 is a great road car, tight, great A/C, solid and stable at speed, (mine is non power steering) lots of feedback on traction, the gearing is wide enough to be put to use at all speeds. Yes, I wish there was more power, but who doesn't?

The 911 is the opposite in many ways, and always a P-car at the same time.

The power band is nowhere near as subtle. At 3500 RPM, it comes alive. You can also pick which end breaks first, but unlike the 944, you can do that on the accel as well. The power sliding rear end in the 911 is to die for. You come to trust the handling immediately. Brakes are more powerful, it's like everything is an order of magnitude more 'out there'. I warn the friends that drive it from time to time that it is 'a race car with license plates'. That seems to cover it. My A/C works reasonably well, both P-cars have great stereos, but I find myself turning it off in the 911 just to listen to the engine.

The 944 draws admiring comments on the street.
The 911 draws stares, and smiles from both men and women.

I meant to sell the 944 when I bought the 911. I still like to drive it, and am going to keep it as well. It's like having both ends of the Porsche spectrum.

My most difficult decision is picking which car to drive to the airport every time I have to go to work.

Michael Krebs
'85 380SL
'87 420SEL
'83 944
'80 911SC
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Red 944

So .. who wants to trade? <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />

Stuttgart951

Hehe trade - I think Im going to make the jump pretty soon - been reading up on the 78-83's and the 84-89's. With prioces as low as they are, I think now would be the time to pounce. Perhaps Ill be selling my current P-car soon.

Elephant Chuck

911 is an adreneline car. For me, it's always scary to drive at the edge. It takes *****, because so much of driving it fast is counter intuitive.

Just plant your right fight and have faith, it will stick.

Can I get an Amen?

Gary Gudinkas

I've done De in both a 1987 944 and a 1988 911. The 944 was a great all-around car and good at DE, it only lacked power. It took the corners great. I do like the 911 better though. It is more viseral. It did take much longer to get used to at speed though. Also, to do DE in a 911, it really needs lowering, a good alignment and corner balancing. Surprising, a well driven 944 will do about the same lap times as a well driven 911 (late 80's vintage). I know several 911 drivers who have gone on to 944 Turbos as that wanted more speed.

964man

I ran a late model 944S2 up to 2000 ( UK spec 211bhp) and was stunend by the predictable handling, practicality and relatively low cost of the car. However, mileage moved and time for a change, with a bit of cash to invest ( wrong word - I lost a shedload of cash !). I was looking ata 3.2 but felt it too far behind teh S2 technically, and on creature comforts such as elcetrics, but also basics like ABS, power steering, so got a 1990 C4 (250bhp). I was always in awe of it, the back end especially despite the 4WD, it was less roomy, less headroom particlualrly but also elbow-room, and lots more expensive. Nevertheless, it sounded great, went like s*$£ off a shovel, both top end and off the lights and was beautifully built.
Would I do teh same again - yes, but budgets have now overtaken me, I am Porsche-less but looking to combine teh best of both worlds witha 944T (250 bhp version). These cars seem so cheap for what they give, especially with a 3year old, and chipping them isn't too pricey.
I don't think this has helped, but its funny how I've come full circle.
PS You may wish to check out my website <a href="http://www.sportscarguides.com" target="_blank">www.sportscarguides.com</a> which provides buyers guides for all models.

Geoffrey

I'll make a couple of comments here. I have both an 89 930 and a 91 944S2, arguabley the best of both model runs. Both cars out of the box need suspension work since they both feel so soft and are frustraiting to drive that way. The 911 cars require a completely different driving style which can be challenging to learn and even more difficult to master. This is not to say they are unpredictable as its reputation for lift throttle oversteer is in my opinion completely undeserved. Having the weight in the rear is a compromise, but can be used to your advantage. The car brakes differently...better..than the 944. You can lift the gas and rotate the car in a turn within reason, and it really gets traction comming out of a corner. I think the 911 is a more durable car in the long run since the engine is more simple and has had years of improvements.

The 944 on the other hand is one of the easiest cars to drive and itself is also rewarding, but for me there is just something missing that the 911 has and I can't quite put it into words. All-in-all, the 944 makes a great track car for a beginner or someone who really likes the car. I enjoy the 944 for a daily driver, but would trade it for a 964 C2 without a thought, even if the C2 was worth less.

Carrera51

RR:
I too learned to drive on the track in an 83 944. Dynamite car, very forgiving, and very reasonable operating costs on the track. My dad let me drive his 964 C2 at Summit Point and it was pretty much all over at that point. Had to a 911 of my own. Couldn't afford a 964 (prices were still in the $30s at the time, so I bought my current car (84 Carrera).

I think learning on a 944 really gave me an excellent foundation for driving a 911. We all know that 944 NAs are momentum cars and driving one on the track forces you to learn how to carry speed through corners because you don't have the extra HP on tap to bail you out if you blow a corner and scrub off too much speed.

Contrary to popular belief, 911s are not as difficult to drive as some think. You can hustle them around a track, but always remember to respect them. Every once in a while, I forget that and the car gives me a little reminder. Fortunately those reminders have been limited to spins that didn't result in body damage (other than some scratches on the front bumper courtesy of the Watkins Glen styrofoam).

If you decide to get one, you will get used to it. One of the things I like about mine, is that everytime I drive it, I learn something. You will never get bored with it. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Rich Sandor

I think the general consenus is that 944 and 951 are great starter Porsches for those who can't afford a comparable 911.

That is why I picked up my 951. For the price, you could not get a better P-car. However, when my income increases, and I have the cash to spare, a 911 will complete the stable.

And BTW, I have driven 924s, 928s, 944s, 951s, and 911s (1978,85,00,02) and a few Boxsters.

Each Porsche is an experience in it's own right.
Personality and preferance dictate which one suits you best.

Personally, I want a 904GTS