Is a 911 a good "day trip" highway car vs. a vette?
06-12-2009, 07:39 PM
#31
I agree with Aggravation. I have had my 85 911 for 20 yrs. over the last 10 rebuilt/upgraded for DE/autocross. as it became a bit harsh for the street, I bought a nice 84 928S for my semi-dd last year. the 928 is a comfortable long distance GT. I still recall the magazine adds for 928s that suggested in Germany you own a 928 and drive between cities on the autobahn rather than fly. you could get 'door to door' faster in the 928.
my 928 is an auto, which is what I wanted. but you can find good 5 speeds out there. you can find a good, sorted 928 for a resonable price, but be prepared for the cost upkeep if you don't do much of your own work.
good luck in your quest.
my 928 is an auto, which is what I wanted. but you can find good 5 speeds out there. you can find a good, sorted 928 for a resonable price, but be prepared for the cost upkeep if you don't do much of your own work.
good luck in your quest.
06-12-2009, 07:48 PM
#32
Unless you have some good good friends (like at the local PCA) I think you'll just need to buy a 911. You can always sell it again later -- they don't go down too much in price.
You might want to select an '87 911 - they are fairly cushy with power gizomos and a hydraulic clutch and the 'murican style G50 trans. If you want rawer, then buy an early car, and then sell the G50 car after driving both a while to be certain.
If you get the G50 car, and want something more cushy (and faster but with less feel) then buy a newer 911. Repeat re the overlap period for comparison driving and then sell the G50.
There is also the fleet approach...
You might want to select an '87 911 - they are fairly cushy with power gizomos and a hydraulic clutch and the 'murican style G50 trans. If you want rawer, then buy an early car, and then sell the G50 car after driving both a while to be certain.
If you get the G50 car, and want something more cushy (and faster but with less feel) then buy a newer 911. Repeat re the overlap period for comparison driving and then sell the G50.
There is also the fleet approach...
06-12-2009, 08:00 PM
#33
Well - I drove a really nice red / black 84 Carerra today. It has 133K miles. Listed for $17.9K which is maybe high by a few K, but it's probably worth somewhere close to that. Really pretty original car. Lowered, but no other mods. Everything works on it. I was amazed at how tight and rattle free the car was at 25 years old and with so many miles. The motor ran like it was new. The steering is just amazing on these cars - I really do love the feedback and the instant responsiveness. Blows away a vette for sure. It doesn't blow away a E36 M3 or an Evo, however. It is better, but not by much. Different - yes. Very different.
The handling is quite different too - I took a fast sweeper on-ramp at some pace and it felt pretty planted - but not at all like a vette feels. I am not sure I can even describe how they differ, but a vette and M3 are both fairly similar - 911 I can feel the weight in the ***-end. It isn't a bad thing, but I am used to 50/50 cars, not 40/60 cars or whatever the 911 is. I have some seat time in a NSX and I think overall that is the best handling car I've ever driven, period. I do not have enough time in a 911 to have any clue how to rate it.
The clutch would take some getting used to - it is an on-off switch and lets go way up at the top of the pedal travel. I prefer an engagement about half way into the pedal travel. The shifter / trans is a bit balky. It doesn't want to move quickly like the more modern trans in a M3 or vette or in my S4. I tried to manage a heal-toe downshift, but did not find the right foot placement on the pedals - it would take some work to figure it out.
I guess part of the joy in driving a 911 is mastering all these things. You can get in a M3 or a vette and be really fast and smooth almost from the begining. Not so in one of these old 911's - it requires some skill. Which is kinda neat in some ways. So you get satisfaction out of becoming a better 911 driver. I can dig that.
Oh - the AC worked fine on the car I drove. There is no vent on the outside, only in the middle of the car, so that is a bit annoying. But it blew pretty cold. Sure - it wasn't vette cold, or nearly as good as my Audi. I guess the car is probably fine for days in the 80's. In the 90's would be fine for weekends in a t-shirt and shorts and just open up the windows. But during the week in work clothes I would just not drive it when it was 90+ outside. that's fine - it isn't that hot too many days in northern CA. So I can deal with that. I have other cars to drive when it is just too hot out.
I need to try out a later G50 based 3.2, and then a 964 and even a 993 to see what I like better. Very tough decision between a 911 and a vette because the vette is such a different driving experience. At this point I just do not have a sense which one I would prefer more. I am also thinking that finding a nice unmolested E36 M3 and adding Dinan suspension might be a decent option for what I am looking for. I've had a stock one, and loved the balance, handling, but the Dinan package makes it just that much better. And I might even go so far as to add the supercharger to bump the power up to 340. The one thing I might really dislike about the 911 is the lack of power. I have had so many fast cars it is hard to get that out of my head when it comes to a performance car...
Z06 C5
400hp C4
360hp 3rd gen Camaro
two first gen Camaro's with ~380hp each
CTSV - 400hp
M5 - 400hp
S4 daily driver - 350hp
And the E36 M3 is the closest thing I have had to a sports car, although it was a sedan. And 100% stock. And you could argue an M3 is more like a GT than a sports car. That said - not sure if I really want or need a true sports car either. Just an involving fun to drive car that is enough different from my S4 to keep my automotive ADD at bay. For awhile
The handling is quite different too - I took a fast sweeper on-ramp at some pace and it felt pretty planted - but not at all like a vette feels. I am not sure I can even describe how they differ, but a vette and M3 are both fairly similar - 911 I can feel the weight in the ***-end. It isn't a bad thing, but I am used to 50/50 cars, not 40/60 cars or whatever the 911 is. I have some seat time in a NSX and I think overall that is the best handling car I've ever driven, period. I do not have enough time in a 911 to have any clue how to rate it.
The clutch would take some getting used to - it is an on-off switch and lets go way up at the top of the pedal travel. I prefer an engagement about half way into the pedal travel. The shifter / trans is a bit balky. It doesn't want to move quickly like the more modern trans in a M3 or vette or in my S4. I tried to manage a heal-toe downshift, but did not find the right foot placement on the pedals - it would take some work to figure it out.
I guess part of the joy in driving a 911 is mastering all these things. You can get in a M3 or a vette and be really fast and smooth almost from the begining. Not so in one of these old 911's - it requires some skill. Which is kinda neat in some ways. So you get satisfaction out of becoming a better 911 driver. I can dig that.
Oh - the AC worked fine on the car I drove. There is no vent on the outside, only in the middle of the car, so that is a bit annoying. But it blew pretty cold. Sure - it wasn't vette cold, or nearly as good as my Audi. I guess the car is probably fine for days in the 80's. In the 90's would be fine for weekends in a t-shirt and shorts and just open up the windows. But during the week in work clothes I would just not drive it when it was 90+ outside. that's fine - it isn't that hot too many days in northern CA. So I can deal with that. I have other cars to drive when it is just too hot out.
I need to try out a later G50 based 3.2, and then a 964 and even a 993 to see what I like better. Very tough decision between a 911 and a vette because the vette is such a different driving experience. At this point I just do not have a sense which one I would prefer more. I am also thinking that finding a nice unmolested E36 M3 and adding Dinan suspension might be a decent option for what I am looking for. I've had a stock one, and loved the balance, handling, but the Dinan package makes it just that much better. And I might even go so far as to add the supercharger to bump the power up to 340. The one thing I might really dislike about the 911 is the lack of power. I have had so many fast cars it is hard to get that out of my head when it comes to a performance car...
Z06 C5
400hp C4
360hp 3rd gen Camaro
two first gen Camaro's with ~380hp each
CTSV - 400hp
M5 - 400hp
S4 daily driver - 350hp
And the E36 M3 is the closest thing I have had to a sports car, although it was a sedan. And 100% stock. And you could argue an M3 is more like a GT than a sports car. That said - not sure if I really want or need a true sports car either. Just an involving fun to drive car that is enough different from my S4 to keep my automotive ADD at bay. For awhile
06-12-2009, 10:32 PM
#34
I have an 88 911. Last year, I finally spent the $$ to get the AC completely redone (used RetroAir's kit). The improvement in cooling was immense. I can now easily drive it when it is 95 out - it needs to work very hard at 100, though.
I think the 88 is a great cruiser. My only problem, living outside of Sacramento, is that all the roads here are straight - it makes the drive kind of boring.
My advice would be to buy an older car and just budget $3K for improved AC.
David
I think the 88 is a great cruiser. My only problem, living outside of Sacramento, is that all the roads here are straight - it makes the drive kind of boring.
My advice would be to buy an older car and just budget $3K for improved AC.
David
06-13-2009, 12:08 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
I had to do an hour and a half drive yesterday to do an all night cancer walk from 7pm to 7am. Then it was an hour and a half home this morning on zero sleep. My car is a cab, and the temperature outside was 65 to 70 degrees (the roof was up). I though about this thread on my drive and I have this to report. Aside from engine noise (which is loud in a cab), the car was as easy to drive on a long cruise as my Audi. Highway driving is a one hand on the steering wheel affair. The car was comfortable and responsive for overtaking. Even in fifth gear at lower RPMs, there was plenty of torque for overtaking. On the way home, the car was so easy to drive that I fought to keep myself awake. I find city driving much more trying in this car than long cruises on the highway.
06-13-2009, 11:51 PM
#36
sounds like the clutch on that could use an adjustment...
keep driving 'em and see what you like
re: power - you can always put a 3.8L RS motor in a 1,900 lb. stripped down early car....
mine is a measly 3.2L with only 250 hp in a 2,100 lb. '73 -- it's enuff for an old person.
keep driving 'em and see what you like
re: power - you can always put a 3.8L RS motor in a 1,900 lb. stripped down early car....
mine is a measly 3.2L with only 250 hp in a 2,100 lb. '73 -- it's enuff for an old person.
