tomphot

I'm looking to buy a 1985 RoW 911.
The speedometer shows 66,xxx miles.
The speedometer also goes to 150 MPH.

Can somebody educate me on these WPO cars.
If the car was made for the European market, why does it have a speedometer that shows MPH vs Kilometers per hour.

Did the '85 911's in the US only show 80 mph max?
Where did these other speedometers come from?

Edgy01

Typically Porsche used to provide USA purchasers with a 150 mph speedo for many years. Around 1980 DOT mandated that we could only have speedos that showed about 85 mph in an effort to slow us all down (like that's going to happen). This was the DOT mandated speedo for about 3 years. In the early 1980s many USA 911 drivers got fed up with that crap and would put the 150 mph speedos in their cars, so that it actually was useful. There was also a 160 mph speedo available that looked a lot like the 150 mph speedos but it also had a kpm scale on it. At times you may even find the 180 mph speedos.

If the car was made for the European market it would normally come with a 250 kph speedo. Whoever imported the car slapped in a 150 mph speedo and hopefully had it adjusted to reflect the proper mileage on the odometer that had elapsed til then. (But I wouldn't count on it; it's something that I would have done but not everyone does what they're supposed to).

Instead of a 180 mph speedo (if the car was capable) Porsche even put in 300 kph speedos.

After I acquired a turbo 911SC (1981) I replaced my 150 mph speedo (that the first owner put in to replace the 85 mph one) with the 160 mph / 260 kph one (I was tired of pegging the 150 one).

If you do a search on DOT speedo regulations online you will find out the dates those regulations were in effect. It also included guidance to automotive manufacturers that their speedos must also be optimistic in their speed reporting by a certain percentage while the odometer reads had to be within another specification of accuracy.

theiceman

be wary of any ebay car with incorrect speedo .... check that .. any car period ... there should be documentation that supports speedo change. if the car being sold with incorrect speedo and seller is not up front about it , that is a HUGE red flag.

genripper

My 81 ROW Targa has the original (I'm pretty sure) 250 kph Speedo. I think, but again not sure, the 84 ROW Carrera's went to a 260 kph Speedo.

Lot's of speedo's on e-bay, take your pick.

tomphot

Thanks for your replys

I know I'm asking a very general question perhaps without a known answer, but, were these cars generally brought into the US right after production or bought at a later date as used.
Was the importation of new ROWs a big business?

theiceman

The vast majority that are in North America were brought in as built for sale in North America. With the correct emmisions equipment and safety equipment. Cars would have to be federalized ( basically converted ) to the US or Canadian spec which would be prohibitively expensive and somewhat pointless. Europen cars in general did have more HP ( I imagine more to do with emmision control than anything in n/a limiting power ) .
After a ceratin period ( someone can correct the number but i think it is 20 years or so ) after the car is built it can be brought in bypassing the federilization process. I would imagine that is when the European cars started showing up.

But to answer your question there are way more cars in N/A built to be sold here than imported as one off European cars.

Brads911sc

The 85 mph speedos where only used for 80-82. In 83 the stock speedo is 160 mph. Id be careful of all the mis-information being thrown around Dan.

Edgy01

Importation of ROW Porsches was a VERY big business in the 1980s when there was a time that the dollar to DM exchange rate was very favorable to the USA. (This was around 1985-6). While a 930 could be had in 1986 in the USA for about $50,000 you could get a German version for about $29,500,--all based upon the exchange rate. (Of course, you would have to spend at least $5000 to federalize it). This was a big business for a number of years and hence the reason we have a bunch of ROW 911s making the rounds in the USA today from that era.

genripper

My 81 ROW Targa has the original (I believe) 250 kph speedo. I think the 84 on up Carreras had a 260kph speedo.

Like Edgy01 says, alot of high end/high performance Porsches, Benzez, BMW's etc were brought in because of the currency relationship, and because US emission laws precluded the top models (ie. 930's from 80-85) being brought in by the manufacturers. Varying degrees of "federalization" was performed on these cars.

I think mine was brought over by a German national on a one time exemption, because virtually no federalization was performed on the car as far as I can tell, as in no catylytic converter, door beams, original kph speedo, just the side marker lights put in rather haphazardly. Sure runs good though, has a higher compression engine tha the US version.

VTCMart

So which is it? What years have 85mph from the factory? I have an '82 with 150mph wondering if it is not OE now.

theiceman

try seeing if there is a date stamp on the back of it. if it does see if it matches the date stamp on your other guages.

genripper

85 mph speedos were US only. If it is a ROW (WPOZZZ... VIN) car it probably has a replacement speedo. Like the poster above said, check for a date stamp. Also look on the edge of the face, somewhere in very small print you should be able to see a part number, report that here and we can see what vintage speedo it is, and what it would have been in originally.

Brads911sc

According to what I can find... 80-82 USA cars had an 85 Mph Speedo. 150 Mph were used through 1979. In 83 they deleted the 85 mph and installed a 160 mph. If you have an 82 USA car with a 150 mph speedo... my understanding is that it is not the stock Speedo and was probably swapped out for an earlier speedo.

tomphot

So the ROW '85 I'm looking at with a 150 mph speedo had an older one installed when it was imported.

I just got my VERY in depth PPI report. The 66,xxx miles on the speedo appear
to be accurate. The engine is very dry, never been pulled and test drive blew the socks off of the second generation P mechanic who did the inspection. Just some cosmetic stuff that needs to be addressed.
Very excited!

Brads911sc

appears that way... but i dont know much about ROW cars... The DOT did need to be involved to "americanize" them so sounds about right...
Sounds like a great car. post pics when you get her.