flatsixnut

I am still piddling around with my exhaust system, but as mentioned in Doug's EFI or 3.2 swap thread...I may be in for an expensive decision.

Sorry ahead of time if the story seems to run on and on, but I just need to be specific in where I am going with all of this.

Some of you may remember my recent thread about possible exhaust leak I had. I had been switching back and forth between using a muffler by-pass and my Bursch muffler (which turns out to be a Dynomax with the old Bursch plumbing). Anyway, i was thinking that the clicking sound under load was an exhaust leak coming from around the metal gasket where my straight pipe connects to the muffler. I was told to use some Ultra Copper high temp gasket maker on both sides of the metal gasket to get a proper seal.

I tried the Ultra Copper, but I have the worst patience and did not wait the 24 hours it states to wait for full cure time. About 10 mins after I reinstalled the muffler I cranked the car up. No clicking sound to be heard...so out the garage I go. Out onto the main road I start to put a foot into it and all was quiet. Right after the oil temp came up, I started pushing it more and the sound came back, but not as much as before.

So I was thinking, take the muffler back off and try again. This time allowing for a full 24 hours cure time on the Ultra Copper to make sure I give it time to do its job.

Now back to my rambling thoughts...
I have really been tip toeing around working on my car because I am scared $***less that I have some broken head studs. I have lots of little oil leaks here and there, plus the ticking noise scares me because its under load. Even if the noise goes away after I retry the Ultra Copper, I still plan on peeking under the valve covers.

So here is what I was thinking...My car has roughly 115,000 miles on it with no rebuild whatsoever. It does not have the Carrera tensioners, and I have alot of oil leaks. (It does run fast and strong, faster than a couple friends of mine SC's)
If I do end up with broken head studs, I really should go for a complete rebuild on the 3.0 and do some upgrades while I am in there. Or is it a better idea to do a 3.2 swap? Would I break the bank that much more to just sell my 3.0 and buy a 3.2, then it would be to do a full rebuild on the 3.0?

Will I be happy enough with the 3.2? Should I think about only doing what I need to do to get by (just new head studs), and wait till i could afford going with something bigger than a 3.2...perhaps 3.4 twin plug...or even a 3.6. I think anything more than a 3.2 would be streching the money I do not have.

Again, I am sorry for being so long winded, but I would appreciate some guidance because I really do not know what i would be getting into.

nikkoa

Hello flatsixnut,

I too am in the same boat. I own a 82 SC with 140K+ miles with 2 broken headstuds. I eagerly await others opinions. My OWN 2cents (for whatever it's worth), i would really enjoy keeping the car in its original state. Throwing a 3.2 would increase the power but IMO lower the value. I plan on rebuilding my 3.0 when i replace the studs, unless of course someone here can change my mind

Auto_Werks 3.6

I won't suggest what you "should" do, but I will say my mid year car is a 3.6L transplant. It is by far one of the most fun to drive cars that I've ever owned. It is no comparison to the 3.2. If I was starting with a 3L, I would personally choose full rebuild on the SC engine with different cam, carbs, and exhaust...or go all the way with the 3.6. The 3.2 is a great engine, but so is the 3L, and in my experience i wouldn't spend the extra money to dump the SC engine.

Ed Hughes

Keep in mind with a transplant, you are going with somewhat of an unknown as to a given engine's condition unless you buy it from a friend and you know the real history.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Ed, That is part of my thought process between the 3.0 and 3.2, even though I didn't spell it out. For the same $ as a 3.2 swap of unknown quality you can have a freshly updated 3.0 with the wick turned up a bit. Though if you go 3.6, and have a solid leak down and compression test, I think it's worth the gamble.

I still have not been able to figure out how much power is enough. . . I am going for a 3.6 RSR swap this winter, and possibly throw my current stock 964 engine into my 914 . Michael, you can rest assured that the quest for more never ends.

Peter Zimmermann

Michael: If it were me, I would take the SC engine out, disassemble it to the crankcase, replace all of the lower Dilavar studs with new 993-style studs, have the heads freshened up by a reputable machine shop, have the machine shop measure/evaluate the pistons/rings and cylinders, install Carrera Tensioners during assembly and be done with it. Your dilemma is whether or not to split the case in order to replace that 25+ year old o-ring on #8 main bearing.

Ed is right, if a 3.2 motor comes along, it would be a terrible shame to put it in the car and discover that it uses a quart of oil every 175 miles!

Going to a bigger 3.6 motor puts you on that slippery slope of increased performance = a need for increased safety and performance. Thousands of dollars later you might be happy with the car. Tough choices all the way around.

Cheers!

flatsixnut

Lets say that you know that the 3.2 is solid, or maybe it has had a recent rebuild. Is this not one of the cheaper ways to get descent power to replace the 3.0?

If you went with anything bigger/more powerful than a 3.2 wouldnt you need to jump to a G50 tranny?

flatsixnut

I really did not want to go 3.6 becuase I know it takes alot more money to get the balance back.

If I could get a good 3.2 would it then be worth it over the 3.0?

I still have my fingers crossed that I will not find any broken studs...but if I do I want to make the best decision for me as what direction to move in.

rusnak

If you suspect broken head studs, couldn't you confirm this by taking the valve cover off?

I don't know because I have never had that happen to me, but it also seems that if your exhaust were leaking out of the cylinder head gasket due to a broken head stud, the head might warp and end up flapping around with all of that compression. Maybe you have a pulled head stud, and the stud itself is still whole.

I wouldn't go to an engine swap due to this. It is an extreme answer to a fixable problem.

flatsixnut

You did not read my entire original post did you? I know it was long, but I was trying to give everyone the whole story...

Peter Zimmermann

Remove the lower valve covers and do a visual on the exhaust studs. If none are broken adjust the valves, install a set of Carrera Tensioners, replace the cam o-rings, the oil return tubes, and drive her another 75K miles. At only 115K miles on your engine, if you sell it the buyer will be the big winner - not you!

If you need some tips on how to proceed you know how to find me !

flatsixnut

Roger that Pete!

Ed Hughes

Good 3.2's, or those represented thusly will be easily in the $5-6K area. With a set of headers and a chip (choke on that one Loren!), you'll see a vast improvement over the 3.0. Your 915 trans will be able to handle it, if it has no issues; there are a ton of 964 and 993 swaps such. Now, you start pumping one of those up, and you'll certainly find any weak points in the trans.

flatsixnut

So is it not cheaper to do a 3.2 swap if a complete 3.0 rebuild would cost you the more? Plus the moeny you could get from the 3.0 if you were to sell it.

Are there not other things that are needed for the swap? Electrical?

I do not have $80k laying around to do a 3.6 monster build. So thats out of the question.

If the 3.2 swap was so easy, why would there not be more of them done instead of rebuilding a 3.0SC?

theiceman

I would imagine there is not much involved if you get the brain and wiring harness along with the engine. I would personally rebuild my own 3.0 liter ( a known quantity ) rather than spend money on a 3.2 I know so little about. i could buy an engine with more ttrouble than my own and be out the dollars to do it.