Rebuild or 3.6 conversion...
12-21-2008, 12:12 PM
#31
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I concur Jack.
My point being, for those who have never experienced one of these conversion cars,
is that IF they are set up right, they are extremely capable machines - especially in the hands of a
driver that understands the car.
Like most things in life, only people been through it know what it's like.
As Steve said though, a lot is in the details.
My point being, for those who have never experienced one of these conversion cars,
is that IF they are set up right, they are extremely capable machines - especially in the hands of a
driver that understands the car.
Like most things in life, only people been through it know what it's like.
As Steve said though, a lot is in the details.
12-21-2008, 07:35 PM
#32
Flatsix...thanks for the note. Its quite a ride and as far as conversions go its an involved one, but well worth it. Its quite quick....I'm thinking of doing another hot rod....this time thinking of going water cooled w/either 6GT3 or 6TT power....
12-24-2008, 03:00 PM
#34
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No point pulling a perfectly good, original 3.2 until its time too. Focus on getting the 930 and BMW sold. I'd be happy to trade even my 914 for your 930, if this helps you at all
12-24-2008, 05:06 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
racer- well, the 911 still runs strong but its smoking pretty good. I feel like the environmentalists are going to follow me home and stage a protest (and I don't really want to be polluting the air). I probably, if nothing else, needs a top-end rebuild.
I called Patrick Motorsports b/c they are local. Based on their "estimate" on doing the 3.6 converesion, I don't know that its something I'll be doing anytime soon. There are cars for sale that already have been converted for less money.
I do want to give Steve at Rennsport a call sometime after the holidays to talk to him about either a conversion or a rebuild. I'll be curious to hear what he thinks of the numbers Patrick gave me and I want to explore other options.
Now then, trading the 930 for the 914.... sure, why not. I seem to have a habit of buying pricey cars, pouring money into them, and selling them for a loss. What's the difference?!
I called Patrick Motorsports b/c they are local. Based on their "estimate" on doing the 3.6 converesion, I don't know that its something I'll be doing anytime soon. There are cars for sale that already have been converted for less money.
I do want to give Steve at Rennsport a call sometime after the holidays to talk to him about either a conversion or a rebuild. I'll be curious to hear what he thinks of the numbers Patrick gave me and I want to explore other options.
Now then, trading the 930 for the 914.... sure, why not. I seem to have a habit of buying pricey cars, pouring money into them, and selling them for a loss. What's the difference?!
12-24-2008, 05:49 PM
#36
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tlarocque-
FYI_
Patrick is NOT the person to talk to about this.
He supplied the wire harness for my conversion.
This was done by a previous owner of the motor, and the inexperienced shop i mentioned earlier.
This is what happened:
When i went to change the two distributor caps, rotors, plugs, after 90,000 miles, I found one cap totally worn, and one like brand new.
When pulling plugs, the top ones were worn, but all the bottom plugs were rusted!..as in never fired EVER! (Remember, this is twin plug, 11:3 compression)
Tracing wires, i discovered one of the coils was not working - also done my Patrick (erroneously mounted on the fan housing- where there is a lot of heat and vibration.)
Nope. Not the coils. Tracing to the DME, found that the pin and wire did not even exist, to power that coil = the harness was totally clugged. The car had never run on all twelve plugs, thus, the DME had sensed it, and retarded the timing as far as it could.
Also, no pin or wire for the Varioram.
Also, his lower crankshaft pulley was too small, turning the fan and alternator at too slow a pace to cool and charge.
Tried to call him to talk about it, he would not respond.
Runaway! Runaway!
FYI_
Patrick is NOT the person to talk to about this.
He supplied the wire harness for my conversion.
This was done by a previous owner of the motor, and the inexperienced shop i mentioned earlier.
This is what happened:
When i went to change the two distributor caps, rotors, plugs, after 90,000 miles, I found one cap totally worn, and one like brand new.
When pulling plugs, the top ones were worn, but all the bottom plugs were rusted!..as in never fired EVER! (Remember, this is twin plug, 11:3 compression)
Tracing wires, i discovered one of the coils was not working - also done my Patrick (erroneously mounted on the fan housing- where there is a lot of heat and vibration.)
Nope. Not the coils. Tracing to the DME, found that the pin and wire did not even exist, to power that coil = the harness was totally clugged. The car had never run on all twelve plugs, thus, the DME had sensed it, and retarded the timing as far as it could.
Also, no pin or wire for the Varioram.
Also, his lower crankshaft pulley was too small, turning the fan and alternator at too slow a pace to cool and charge.
Tried to call him to talk about it, he would not respond.
Runaway! Runaway!
12-25-2008, 10:33 AM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Whoa! Thanks for the heads-up. I'll call Steve at Rennsport.
911S3.6- can you give me a ballpark cost for your conversion? I was really bummed after Patrick sent me their quote, REALLY expensive.
911S3.6- can you give me a ballpark cost for your conversion? I was really bummed after Patrick sent me their quote, REALLY expensive.
12-25-2008, 03:41 PM
#38
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tlaroque-
The great thing about doing one of these very special cars is that it is specific to your needs and how you plan to utilize the car. Though there are a lot of them around, they are all very unique too.
A lot depends on: (1) the car you use as a base ( for instance, I had a narrow body 911S, so i had to flare it with SC flares to get more rubber / adhesion); (2) whether you use the car for just street, street / track, or primarily track ( this will dictate things like torsional stiffness, adjustability of suspension needs, aero, and even the level of braking); and (3) aquisition of a 3.6 motor ( as i recounted earlier post- my motor was hampered by the inexperience of the shop that did the work - thus, i paid twice to do what should have been accomplished once).
As far as the details encompassing the actual engine transplant- there is a lot more to it than just engine swapping, as i learned the hard way. Not necessarily monetarily, just attention to detail.
When the valve guides were shot, I opted to send the car to Steve (Weiner), because he had helped me tremendously over the years with the car- not just parts, but long distance advice too.
I figured this would be the best way to pay him back - let him go over the car and do the engine rebuild.
When i picked the car up, I was floored at how different it was. Not just performance and driveability, but even the engine compartment, metal work, etc...was incredible.
I hesitate to quote amounts without defining what those amounts relate to.
In turn, I do not want to give away proprietary info of Steves and Jeff Gamroths.
I can tell you, that through discussing your parameters, budget, and what you would like to achieve,
Steve will give you a very honest appraisal of your goals.
Also, keep in mind, I did mine in phases, over 5 years -while enjoying the process of the car's evolution and performance every step of the way.
Incrementally, I don't think it was "really expensive", and I believe it was well worth it.
A ride / drive in one speaks volumes...LOL!
The great thing about doing one of these very special cars is that it is specific to your needs and how you plan to utilize the car. Though there are a lot of them around, they are all very unique too.
A lot depends on: (1) the car you use as a base ( for instance, I had a narrow body 911S, so i had to flare it with SC flares to get more rubber / adhesion); (2) whether you use the car for just street, street / track, or primarily track ( this will dictate things like torsional stiffness, adjustability of suspension needs, aero, and even the level of braking); and (3) aquisition of a 3.6 motor ( as i recounted earlier post- my motor was hampered by the inexperience of the shop that did the work - thus, i paid twice to do what should have been accomplished once).
As far as the details encompassing the actual engine transplant- there is a lot more to it than just engine swapping, as i learned the hard way. Not necessarily monetarily, just attention to detail.
When the valve guides were shot, I opted to send the car to Steve (Weiner), because he had helped me tremendously over the years with the car- not just parts, but long distance advice too.
I figured this would be the best way to pay him back - let him go over the car and do the engine rebuild.
When i picked the car up, I was floored at how different it was. Not just performance and driveability, but even the engine compartment, metal work, etc...was incredible.
I hesitate to quote amounts without defining what those amounts relate to.
In turn, I do not want to give away proprietary info of Steves and Jeff Gamroths.
I can tell you, that through discussing your parameters, budget, and what you would like to achieve,
Steve will give you a very honest appraisal of your goals.
Also, keep in mind, I did mine in phases, over 5 years -while enjoying the process of the car's evolution and performance every step of the way.
Incrementally, I don't think it was "really expensive", and I believe it was well worth it.
A ride / drive in one speaks volumes...LOL!
12-25-2008, 03:41 PM
#39
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tlaroque-
The great thing about doing one of these very special cars is that it is specific to your needs and how you plan to utilize the car. Though there are a lot of them around, they are all very unique too.
A lot depends on: (1) the car you use as a base ( for instance, I had a narrow body 911S, so i had to flare it with SC flares to get more rubber / adhesion); (2) whether you use the car for just street, street / track, or primarily track ( this will dictate things like torsional stiffness, adjustability of suspension needs, aero, and even the level of braking); and (3) aquisition of a 3.6 motor ( as i recounted earlier post- my motor was hampered by the inexperience of the shop that did the work - thus, i paid twice to do what should have been accomplished once).
As far as the details encompassing the actual engine transplant- there is a lot more to it than just engine swapping, as i learned the hard way. Not necessarily monetarily, just attention to detail.
When the valve guides were shot, I opted to send the car to Steve (Weiner), because he had helped me tremendously over the years with the car- not just parts, but long distance advice too.
I figured this would be the best way to pay him back - let him go over the car and do the engine rebuild.
When i picked the car up, I was floored at how different it was. Not just performance and driveability, but even the engine compartment, metal work, etc...was incredible.
I hesitate to quote amounts without defining what those amounts relate to.
In turn, I do not want to give away proprietary info of Steves and Jeff Gamroths.
I can tell you, that through discussing your parameters, budget, and what you would like to achieve,
Steve will give you a very honest appraisal of your goals.
Also, keep in mind, I did mine in phases, over 5 years -while enjoying the process of the car's evolution and performance every step of the way.
Incrementally, I don't think it was "really expensive", and I believe it was well worth it.
A ride / drive in one speaks volumes...LOL!
The great thing about doing one of these very special cars is that it is specific to your needs and how you plan to utilize the car. Though there are a lot of them around, they are all very unique too.
A lot depends on: (1) the car you use as a base ( for instance, I had a narrow body 911S, so i had to flare it with SC flares to get more rubber / adhesion); (2) whether you use the car for just street, street / track, or primarily track ( this will dictate things like torsional stiffness, adjustability of suspension needs, aero, and even the level of braking); and (3) aquisition of a 3.6 motor ( as i recounted earlier post- my motor was hampered by the inexperience of the shop that did the work - thus, i paid twice to do what should have been accomplished once).
As far as the details encompassing the actual engine transplant- there is a lot more to it than just engine swapping, as i learned the hard way. Not necessarily monetarily, just attention to detail.
When the valve guides were shot, I opted to send the car to Steve (Weiner), because he had helped me tremendously over the years with the car- not just parts, but long distance advice too.
I figured this would be the best way to pay him back - let him go over the car and do the engine rebuild.
When i picked the car up, I was floored at how different it was. Not just performance and driveability, but even the engine compartment, metal work, etc...was incredible.
I hesitate to quote amounts without defining what those amounts relate to.
In turn, I do not want to give away proprietary info of Steves and Jeff Gamroths.
I can tell you, that through discussing your parameters, budget, and what you would like to achieve,
Steve will give you a very honest appraisal of your goals.
Also, keep in mind, I did mine in phases, over 5 years -while enjoying the process of the car's evolution and performance every step of the way.
Incrementally, I don't think it was "really expensive", and I believe it was well worth it.
A ride / drive in one speaks volumes...LOL!
12-25-2008, 07:55 PM
#40
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I love white Carrera's. Sell me your Carrera and keep the Turbo. I will do an understated turbo conversion for 500hp.
I am just guessing here but I bet with suspention, brakes, and a 3.6 you are talking $20-25k. You can sell your motor to offset $5k or so. You will almost be selling your 930 and puting it into you Carrera. Not sure if that is downsizing.
What is wrong with your 3.2 motor that makes it in need of a rebuild?
Have you taken off the cat, added a sport muffler, and a 911Chips.com chip? That, good tires, and a good corner ballance and sport alignment makes for a very nice car.
I am just guessing here but I bet with suspention, brakes, and a 3.6 you are talking $20-25k. You can sell your motor to offset $5k or so. You will almost be selling your 930 and puting it into you Carrera. Not sure if that is downsizing.
What is wrong with your 3.2 motor that makes it in need of a rebuild?
Have you taken off the cat, added a sport muffler, and a 911Chips.com chip? That, good tires, and a good corner ballance and sport alignment makes for a very nice car.
12-25-2008, 08:28 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Keith- I am beginning to think you are correct. I still want to give Steve a call but I may just do a simple top end and keep the car the way it is. Yes, I removed the stock cat/muffler and put on a sport exhaust. I have a Steve Wong chip. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the car, it just doesn't quite allow me to run at the pace I desire at the track. My 930 is plenty quick. The Carrera is worth a lot more to me than it would ever be to anybody else. As I stated above, it was my father's since new so its basically a one owner car. I detailed that thing every weekend growing up so I could have money to go to the movies.
I'm contemplating selling the 1989 930 and perhaps buying an older 4-speed version that will allow me to pocket some cash. We'll see. I'm enjoying investigating all of the options here.
I'm contemplating selling the 1989 930 and perhaps buying an older 4-speed version that will allow me to pocket some cash. We'll see. I'm enjoying investigating all of the options here.
12-25-2008, 08:40 PM
#43
Race Car
Done simply, a 3.6 swap can be pretty economical. But merely adding 40-50 hp is not by itself going to transform a Carrera into a giant killer. If you track the car, especially, it might not be easy to resist the whole, no-excuses enchilada -- you can go after the GT3s that way, but that's where heavy-duty cooling, suspension, brakes and gearing are going to become essential, and those pieces aren't cheap when you add them all up. If it's not a car you want to keep, honestly, it makes more sense to just buy the GT3 and enjoy yourself the very next day. But if you want a very unique car that raises eyebrows wherever it goes, then a 3.6 swap and a track-purpose makeover can be a lot of fun.
12-26-2008, 12:24 AM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
You guys are killing me. Nothing I like better than an understated weapon. Somebody at least PM me a ballpark cost on the engine conversion. I'm okay with a long-term project but I at least need to know what the initial nut would be. I can do suspension and brakes, etc. over time. The car isn't going anywhere.... ever.