944J

it could be a car to restore or put a strosek body kit on if the price is low enough

Ed Hughes

Well hey now! The trunk light works, that changes everything...

In today's world, $5300 in hand is worth a lot more than that POS in one's garage.

944J

def $5300 is not the right price, esp when you can get a 928 for $3500.

i'd offer $1500, what do you guys think of that offer?

Cajun

I sold my '76 two years ago for $5,500. Interior was a 8/10 and the interior was 8/10. I blew the engine on my way to Texas to see an old girlfriend. Basically, the car was right, all it needed was an engine.

Especially in today's market, that car is not worth more than a couple thousand...

GothingNC

He probably can get $5,000 parting it out.

John

Tom R.

I think you are determined to spend money. I say either mail me the money and watch it vanish in my 951, or throw it away on some beer and hookers.

three choices, three ways to get screwed out of money, the 911 frightpig making the least business sense.

944J

so $1500 is too much? whats a good price to offer him?

Cajun

All BS aside, have you seen the car? If not, GO SEE IT BEFORE YOU MAKE AN OFFER.

If you have seen the car, then you know a more than we do about the actual shape the car is in. Rust can be a real issue...and a good replacement engine is going to run you 5k+.

groovzilla

911sc's are also notorious for pulling headstuds...ask any good 911 mechanic

Jay H

At this point, no matter what you offer, you're going to spend $$$$$ in a hurry.

My brother is doing a full restoration on a 1966. I've taken my POS 1984 3.2 Carrera from an abandoned status to a very good driver status. This is my 3rd 911 and my brother has 4. All of our cars have had extensive work put into them to make them drive as they did when they left the factory. I'm still not done on my '84 and it runs exceptionally well. I bought it for $12k and have put another $12k into it on just normal restoration issues. I'm well versed in what this stuff costs to get back up to snuff.

I would bet everything on this car is shot or needs replacement.

Here is what you're facing as far as costs if you have to have a shop do most of the labor:

$10,000 for a good motor. Maybe even $12,000 for a fresh one.
$3500-$5000 on transmission rebuild.
$5,000-$10,000 on interior. All these parts are getting hard to find. Nice stock seats are $2000 in fresh leather. New carpet is $1000, then you have all the other little things like headliner, rear seats, rear deck, dash (those are $1100 now!), gauge restoration, stereo, etc. etc. etc. Getting the interior as new is extremely expensive if you use good parts and don't scrimp.
$6000 on suspension rebuild. Have you priced new A-arms, torsion bars, Bilsteins/Boges and all the bushings and bearings you need? This stuff is expensive. At this point, the whole suspension is shot. Everything has to go.
$2000 on brake restoration. Rotors, rubber lines, caliper rebuild or replacement, etc.
$2000 on tires and restoring the rims.
$2000 on rust removal - could be much more depending on how bad stuff is.
$8000 for paint
$2500 for a clutch, clutch cable, helper spring, etc.
$500 for new oil thermostats, lines, coolers, etc. Who knows what's wrong with this thing as far as oil cooling goes.
$4000 for fresh A/C if all the components are shot.
$4000 for 'while you're in there' and other stuff you don't know about yet.

Add that all up...

...and you're looking at $45,000-$50,000 to get this car back to new. You can save quite a bit if you can DIY, but keep in mind that parts are very expensive and motor and transmission work is expensive.

Then, you're still left with a 1977 911 that is still worth only $15,000.

Still interested? After all this, it isn't going to matter in the end if you offer $1500 or $3500. That intial purchase price will only be a fraction of the entire cost you'll spend doing a restoration the right way and not cutting corners.

Or, you could buy this thing for $1500 and then spend another $15,000 on it. You'd have quite a bit of cash into it and then still be left with a parts car that is worth $7000.

If you insist on fixing up an impact bumper car, find the nicest one you can. You can still dump thousands and thousands into it getting it back to new. Find a 1977 that is running and driving very well for $10,000. Spend another $10,000 on something like that and you'll have a nearly new 911.

That orange thing you posted a link to probably cost $50k to do it right. Plus, it still has a limited appeal and didn't even bring $20k.

theiceman

I have never heard of an SC head stud pulling William and i think many here would disagree with you also. They can and do break on occasioon like any 911 but i have never heard of one pulling. So to say they are notorious for it , especially since you don't know yourself and telling people to ask someone else is not only inflamatory, it is just pretty damn irresponsible IMO

944J

makes sense here, i'm looking into the viability of buying old porsches and fixing them up and selling them for a profit, finding the numbers and a good builder/modifier who can do the work for me at a low price based on doing mroe than one car... any ideas?

sty3x

Cutting up 928s gets old after awhile huh?? :-p now your destroying Carreras??

944J

yeah, i'm over 928's after a couple weeks of owning my first...

lol

on to carrera gt's

Jay H

I'm not sure how long you've been around Porsche's, but here's my take on the used Porsche business from being an observer for a dozen or so years.

Browse around the internet for awhile. You'll find that there are a good handful of reputable dealers selling used Porsche's. Take a good look at their inventory and their pricing. Most of the really successful vendors are typically selling very, very nice cars at premium prices. Why is that? These dealers can buy very nice cars at market value, typically from private parties. Then, they may recondition them a bit, but since the cars are very nice to begin with, they may only have to throw a small amount of cash at them to fix minor issues. That little bit of money (even if it is a $1000 or two) typically is only a fraction of the cost of the car. They still can sell these cars at their nice dealerships for a markup which results in good profits and also sell a quality car to the customer which bolsters their reputation. The customer pays a premium, but gets a top quality car in exchange. Repeat business can occur and/or a good word of mouth follows.

I would bet a lot of these customers of these high end dealerships don't like to or don't have the time to deal with PPI's or hassles with private buyers, so they use these "high end" used car dealerships to obtain their toys that usually have been gone through by a staff mechanic and either fixed or not offered for sale (resold to the whole sale market). They will pay the premium for a very nice car.

Here is the flip side:

Years ago in my area, I frequently visited two used car dealers that specialized in used Porsches. Both of these dealerships would buy pretty worn out Porsches that were on auctions or from private sellers. They bought these cars at or just below market prices and hoped that with some repairs, they could flip them for a profit. Both of these places went out of business even after a handful of years trying to make a go of it. I was approached by one of the dealerships to work for them since I'm an accountant. I spoke with the owner for a short period of time and did a few numbers for their business case. Here's what I gleaned from our limited conversations.

Both places had a "low overhead" type of dealership (one had the dealership in a warehouse and the other in an inexpensive looking property) and probably paid pennies for rent. But, each one of their cars in inventory was one of those cars that had issues. They'd buy them cheap (because they were abused or worn out cars that no one else wanted), then maybe spent a few hundred on them, then tried to flip them for $2000 to $5000 more than they paid.

Since these cars were cheap initially, all of them needed thousands of dollars worth of work to make them nice. You can't fool most Porsche buyers on these old cars. Most everyone just plain stayed away from these places after while since they didn't want to pay over market prices for "issue" Porsches. The profit margins either were very slim on these cars once a sale was made, non existent after the buyer demanded 'this and that' needed to be fixed or just plain irritated enough potential buyers to stay away from them with their questionable inventory. It was my assumption that the one dealership that approached me needed to gross $2000 to $4000 of profit per unit to keep the lights on and generate a profit for the owners. That's hard to do when you pick up a rough condition 911 for $12,000, spend $1000 on some issues, pay interest on the inventory, and then have it worth only $13,000 to $14,000 IF you can find a buyer for that sort of low end Porsche. There was just too much work to be done on each one of these cars at that price point to sell a quality product and make a good profit.

I don't think the volume approach of flipping cars for $500 profit would work. I don't think there is enough supply and demand for selling large numbers of used Porsches at $500 to $1000 profit per unit to make a go of it. Neither one of the "low end" dealerships I mentioned were doing anything wrong, but I bet they just couldn't generate enough profit per unit to make a business case out of it. Plus, the Porsche world is extremely small and you can't sell poor quality used Porsches for very long without your reputation being tarnished and a bad word of mouth getting around.

The "Body Kit" type of 911 that you mention is really out of fashion these days. Anyone with some cash to spend on a unique car either wants a newer vehicle or wants the car bone stock if they are after an older model. I think there is zero money to be made on "Body Kit" cars unless you are Ruf, TechArt, etc. where you are selling extremely high end modified NEW Porsches and you have a solid, long term history of Porsche tuning.

So, either you get into selling used Porsches at the upper level of condition, do it as a limited hobby just to have some fun (and ignore potential profits), or just plain stay out of it.