997for40

any feedback? seems like the have additives (zinc/phos) for max wear protection.

old man neri

I remember reading somewhere that racing oils aren't good for street applications because of their lack of detergentcy. You would have to do oil changes quite often.

Brads911sc

Kendall GT1 20W50 has the right additives and is great for the track as well... its what I run in mine at Pete's recomendation. Its about $40 a case. Good Non-Syn Alternative to the Syn / Syn Blend oils like BP. Just my .02.

bgiere

The new "Dominator" race oil is fine for street use, it has a high TBN and the proper detergents. Some race oils,like Redline straight weights, have very little or no detergent which means they need to be changed after a very short run period. This oil is new and expensive to boot. IMHO, I'd run Redline 10w40. It is proven and less expensive. BTW, the old Kendall GT exists in name only. Conoco Philips bought it and just kept the brand name...Not a terrible oil, but there are definitely better for our applications. I have not seen a UOA on Kendall lately but the last one (a few years back) was decidely weak.

997for40

thanks for the insight....i know what you mean about the cost of the "Dominator" at $11.40/qt. but on the flip side if it helps in prolonging engine wear a cheap investment. If Redline is comparable...i will give it a shot..

bgiere

I have used and continue to use both Redline 10w40 and Rotella 15w40 in my 911's and 944. I have many UOA's that show those oils as very high performers indeed. Yes, even the new CJ-4 Rotella is doing a fine job. Which oil you choose is likey dependent on many factors...use of the car,frequency of change, ambient temp,etc. The rule I've followed for 15 years with these cars has been Redline in the race/track cars and Rotella (or other HDEO) in the street cars.

84_Carrera

Kendall GT 20W50 is SM-rated. The PO on mine used to run it years ago, so I kept using it. After it went SM, I started using Brad Penn 20W50.

I'm currently searching for a good 15W40 for winter use. I did 10W40 previously, and if I can't find something decent locally, I'll order out.

people have mentioned the M1 at Wallie World is still ok, but everything on their shelves here this past weekend was SM rated. Ugh.

bgiere

SM does not automatically cancel out an oil for our apps. Use the "search" and you'll find there is plenty of opinion and plenty of fact on oil!

84_Carrera

It was myunderstanding that to meet the SM rating, the Zinc & Phosphorus levels were dropped below "acceptable" levels, meaning that yes, an SM rating is essentially the kiss of death for our cars' cams. I've been following those oil threads for the past year very intently, actually.

Brads911sc

based on my research, including posts written by Navarro himself on Pelican, your 84 is not a flat tappet car... imho, its 90% hype if your car was built after the early 70's... some of the oil mentioned as ok/acceptable by Navarro in the latest pelican posts.... has SM stamped on their bottle... VR1 -SM, All the 20w50 high mileage varieties - SM.... if Pete says all his research shows that GT1 has the acceptable additives at the right levels... then whether it has SM on the bottle is not what determines whats in it. I dont think its that simple... Its like saying your 84 has the same needs as a 1964 356. It just isnt true...

Jay Gratton

I use it and I love it! I have had much better results with it. When my friends take a part their motors they have much less wear now that they use Amsoil.

Brads911sc

From HarryD with supporting posts embedded from Navaro...

"As a result of this lowering of ZDDP content, and as of this posting, the only choices I am aware of that provide adequate ZDDP Protection include (in no particular order):

Brad Penn Racing Oils (same as the old Kendall from the '70s);
SWEPCO 306;
Redline;
Royal Purple;
Castrol GTX High Mileage; and
Mobil 1 V-Twin MC 20w-50.

added 9/16/2007

Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50
Amsoil m/c Harley V-twin 20w50
Castrol Syntec "Classic" 20w50

Added 9/22/2007
Valvoline VR-1 20W-50

There may be more but I do not know of them."

As an FYI. Many on this list are SM rated.

Brads911sc

Based on this article... http://www.api.org/certifications/en...forprint-2.pdf the API SM rules do NOT apply to 20w50. In fact they only apply to... 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30. Without an independant test showing the content of your 20w50... The SM on the bottle means nothing. Ill continue to use Kendall GT-1 20w50. Just my .02.

Bearclaw

+ Eleventy-Million
The Redline has plenty of the right stuff for these engines. I've talked to one of their engineers, who is also a Porsche guy. 10W-40 is the weight he recommended. They know what they're doing.

And if this thread has legs, it will go several pages, like oil threads always do...
I wanted to do my part to help that.

Brads911sc

Charles, there is a reference at the end of the Panorama article that takes you to a Valvoline Marketing blast from this past Summer...

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf

Here's a snippet:

"Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono"

What is the SM Engine reference? The obvious question would be 75% higher than what?

In the same flier, they do provide more technical, raw data. Would you please help translate? My car currently has this oil from a recent oil change. The shop I used, a known one in Atlanta, said that this is what they have used for the last 20 years.

Boutique oils sound cool, but costly. If the same protection can be had for less, I'm all for it.

With regard to the Panorama article, if the author didn't use credible information, then that is quite a shame. I was actually excited to see article in the mag having already seen this thread. Has anyone tried to reach the author for comment since the publication?
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11-12-2008, 05:52 PM Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki #1031


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cnavarro

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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,605
600 to 800 ppm, leaving it quite vague, for what a SM-rated oil would have and 75% more could mean a little more than 1000ppm to 1400ppm. From a sample run about the time that we saw the bottles carrying a "new ashless anti-wear technology", it had a little over 1000ppm and added boron. That's not to say it hasn't been changed since, just like Mobil 1 has changed a few times since the "re-introduction" of the 15w50.
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11-12-2008, 06:21 PM Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki #1032


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