Craig Lutz

Currently have a 964 but looking at a 69 911T on ebay right now. Car is located in Tulsa and looks to be in great shape. Bidding ends today w/ current bid at $24.5K. Car has around 85K miles. Love the classic look and color. Hoping to get some help on how this would drive compared to my 964 as earliest 911 I have driven was a 82 911SC. I know there is a lot of difference in HP and weight but really don't know much about the early 911's. If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it. If anything maybe some other rennlister may see this car a purch. it as it looks to be an excellent car. Thanks.

ked

You have GOT to drive one in order to make a comparison upon which to make a buying decision (along w/ thorough PPI, buying Pete's book, etc) - unless you are emotionally committed or are just going to flip it if you don't like it.

About all I can suggest as a starting point is that on a continuum from raw to modern, your 964 being modern & the SC you drove being in the middle, then the '69 T is at the raw end of the driving experience. Most owners would describe them as light, direct, quick-responding, dynamic, sensory-rich, peaky (less so the T, but still) & unforgiving of fools & dreamers. Don't forget they are old, too (inspect chassis VERY carefully). Good luck!

Craig Lutz

Ked, thank you for the insight. I was hoping you would say it would be very slow and methodical. Emotionally is has struck me as being a great looking car with potential of being fun to drive. I wish I had the opportunity to drive an older one but those chances seem rare where I live. I am sure the smart thing to do is pass. Thanks.

TT Oversteer

I had a '69T with a 2 liter and 901 trans that I converted to a '78 SC 3.0 with 915 trans. It was a very raw and visceral car. Before the swap not real fast but sounded good and fun to drive. 901 dogleg shifter vague and took some getting used to. After the swap it was wicked fast, noisy, smelled of gas and oil and incredibly fun to drive. These cars are pre-zinc plated bodies and VERY rust prone therefore check out the front suspension pan/battery area, rockers, corners of windows, etc. My car was capable of 150+ mph and was a little darty at speed whent the front end began to lift. Maybe it wasn't set up perfectly but my point is that these cars feel nowhere near as planted or relaxed as your 964 at speed. Overall, great fun, beautiful car, simple and easy to fix. I say go for it if it's rust free and you're willing to have some patience for the idiosyncracies of a car that's nearly 40 yrs old. Seems like the long hoods are a good investment these days. With I had kept mine............. Good luck!

Peter Zimmermann

How about a link to the car's eBay ad...?

Craig Lutz

TT Oversteer. Thanks for the help. I keep trying to get this car off my mind. I have done some, 6-7 DE's and feel more comfortable in the autocross arena so I think I will leave the high speed courses for the experts. If purch. would be weekend toy with some possible autocrosses mixed in so fun to drive is important. Certainly wish I could drive before deciding but just not possilble. Your input is very helpful. Thank you.

Craig Lutz

Pete. Not great with computers, otherwise I would link. Item # is 120284776841and the item URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120284776841 Sorry I am no more help. Thanks.

ked

"I am sure the smart thing to do is pass."

Perhaps, but when did any of us do the smart thing when it came to our first 911? Find a PCA member (or R-Gruppe or 911S Registry) member who will take you for a ride in his '69-'73... maybe let you drive it... "fun to drive?" ... you're screwed... just make sure someone who is expert, trustworthy & sane checks out the car for you. Bad surprises mitigate the fun, for sure.

Read the ad, car seems pretty nice, noted some discrepencies... I don't think you could get hydropnemo frt susp in a '69 T, evan as an option (Pete?). Car would have come w/ 15" Fuchs, not 16". Don't think anti-roll bars impact stiffness much - that's a shocks & springs thing. Lotsa expert upgrades done...

Craig Lutz

Item URL should be this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120284776841

Jay H

My brother has a 1966 911 (built in 1965), a 1970 "T" with an "E" motor and two 1983 SC's. I have a 1984 Carrera and a 1990 964. I've had plenty of seat time in my brother's cars and of course know my cars like the back of my hand.

As the cars get older, the fun goes way up. Think the '83 SC's are fun? The '70 is 10 times more fun. If you think the '70 is fun, drive a short wheel base 911 from the 60's. Crude, rude, b!tchy, twitchy and a complete handful to drive at full tilt. Just how we like 'em. My favorite of all of these 6 cars is by far the '66. Hands down, it's the most fun you can have in a 911. It's the least amount of power, the worst handling and the least amount of comfort, but on a nice dry day, it's non stop smiling like a little kid.

I have to fully agree with ked that the fun factor is HUGE on these early cars. I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to own an early car if you can get a nice one. Be prepared to empty your wallet since the little stuff will nickle and dime you. But, if you like 911's and if you like driving, it'll be worth the payments...

Good luck,

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

Craig Lutz

Thanks Jay for the helpful comments. I am hoping someone bids thirty something before I do something stupid lke buying a car off a picture w/out even knowing how it drives. They do sound like they are very fun to drive even at the lower hp. Thanks.

Brett San Diego

It's had some body work done to add flares to the front and rear to cover the wider wheel/tire combination. Not saying it's good or bad. Just mentioning it. I kind of like the look, but be aware that it isn't original bodywork.

Brett

Craig Lutz

Brett. Thanks for the heads up. Spoke w/ the mech. who rebuilt the engine last year and stated no expense was spared. Felt there was $50k in the car. Also, estimated hp to be up near 200 and there is no rust on the car. Car was in Arizona for 15 yrs and Texas for 5 yrs. Can only go on peoples word but making it very hard not to bid on this car at $26k. Fortunately, only 2 hrs left on auction. Thanks again.

Peter Zimmermann

To my eye the flares look stock, but if you need a truly original car this one will need a lot of thought. There are many aspects (usually things necessary to command a high price) such as the matte finish dashboard, the poor fitting front bumper/spoiler (probably fiberglas), the incorrect tailpipe deco tip, the missing body deco pieces for bumpers and rocker panels, the replacement door panels (I'm sure done to avoid the expensive issue of original map pockets), the incorrect wheels, etc. that might cause one to conclude that the car is not owned by a purist. The seller states that the car has Koni Sport shocks and some sort of T-bars, but took the sway bars off because of the stiff ride - that is so wrong and again points to an amazing lack of knowledge. It does appear to be a very pretty car, and in this crazy market it might be worth the price it's at, but the car cannot, as it sits be called "correct." The car has been personalized for whatever reason, and if you like that you're good. Myself, I would never buy a car that age without a pre-arranged inspection by an expert, hopefully you've obtained enough info to protect yourself.

Craig Lutz

Thanks Pete and everyone else for all the valuable information. I'm going to let someone else enjoy this one. I think the car looks great but w/out driving it and w/out a pre-purchase inspection the risk is too great even though I do love the car. If I had the 964 sold I would be better prepared. Hopefully it is a great car and brings someone lots of motoring fun. Thanks.